$200 NLHE Full Ring: Live Game: BB with KK

$200 NL HE Full Ring: Live Game: BB with KK

So this actually wasn't my hand (I was short-stacked UTG), although I was in it, but afterward I questioned the best way to play it. Here's how it went:

Here are the reads: BTN is a loose, aggressive player. Seems average, sometimes plays questionable hands. SB recently joined the table, so reads are minimal. UTG (me) is tight and has only played a few hands.

BTN and BB had similar stack sizes of around $500. UTG and SB were both short-stacked.

BB had KK in the BB-

UTG raises to $15
Folds around to the BTN who calls, and the SB makes it $30. BB calls.
UTG reraises to $45 and is all-in. BB calls, SB calls, BB calls.
Flop is 9 T Q rainbow. SB bets $30 and is all-in. BB calls. BTN makes it $60. BB calls.
Turn is a 5. BB checks. BTN bets $75. BB calls.
River is a J. BB checks. BTN checks.

Now if I were in this hand, I would have reraised preflop with the KK to like $100 after the SB raised it. I then would have bet like $200 on the wet flop, and shove the turn. Maybe even shove the flop, I don't know. But my question is, BB is obviously not folding the flop, but is his call on the turn correct?

jaded848 said:

But my question is, BB is obviously not folding the flop, but is his call on the turn correct?

Click to expand...

What is beating him in this hand? While I don't agree with the way he played it, obviously it worked for him in this case.

With him just check/calling the whole way, he makes it incredibly unlikely him to extract any value on the river. With a board of QT9 if I remember correctly, he is behind only KJ, J8, QT, Q9, and 9T, as well as the obvious sets. Against a set, or two pair, he has the same number of outs, 6, his two remaining kings and the four missing jacks, so the rule of fours tell us he's 24% to win if he's behind, and we know he's a little better than that.

He's ahead of all one-pair hands, and he likes when he's up against one pair with 2nd kicker, which is drawing to only trips to him, and or a hand involving an Ace. As long as he's not up against AK, is sure to win a big pot if his J comes. So as far as outs go, with 6 in the worst case scenario, and being ahead the whole way in the best case scenario, with a total of 12 on the turn against two pair, I don't think he got bad odds to call any of the bets.

I'd guess some ranging could come into play here, but against so many villains for so many pots, it's questionable it even matters.

What's atrocious is his check on the river. The only hands that are going to bet into him are going to chop a gigantic pot with him, or stack him with the better straight. On such an obvious straight board with 2nd best straight, holding two of the four cards in the various combinations to beat him, he can safely bet this street for value at whatever amount he chooses, and may even entice a player to try to make a move at the pot, which I believe the correct response would be to call, since we don't have the nuts, but still have a very strong hand and are likely to be best. The only hands that call a bet/raise are going to either chop the pot or beat us, so just a call will suffice should we encounter a raise on the river.

Again, not how I would have played it, but unconventional play with big hands is sometimes rewarded.

Playing the hand backwards, I would have bet the river.
I would have either bet or check/raised the turn.
I would have bet or check/raised the flop.
And I definitely would have re-raised preflop. Out of position with KK can really mess you up when an A hits.

There was an interesting post a number of months ago in a very similar hand. Basically it's AA with an inside straight flush draw against a set of kings, and it showed all the equity the hand had... If I remember correctly.

Of course, he doesn't have the inside SFD here, but he still has a ton of equity unless the villain with chips remaining has AA, and even then he's still got a shot, and the action on the table isn't really indicitave of AA, however our villain doesn't have a way to know it since he never raised, but I'm sure he doesn't care too much.

Thanks for the detailed response. I think I was just steaming and wanted him to have played it badly, because I had QQ and would have won the initial amounts if he had just freakin' folded lol oh well. The villain who was betting into him had Q9....very weird I know. Needless to say, he was not pleased on the river.

Wouldn't you be scared to check/raise the flop for fear of draws? Any jack might check behind, is that a concern?

Also, considering stack sizes, would it be safe to say that if you c/r the flop, you'd be all-in on the turn?

This hand is so butchered I dont know where to begin.

Ill say that postflop shouldnt even be considered, since preflop should be played so differently.

The min raise to 30 is just redonkulus unless villain noted UTGs stack size realized that hes gunna shove and reopen the betting and now I can trap all this dead money and then pound it with KK to go HU vs UTG.... had that been the case the goofy min raise is good, but considering he just flats the 15 its obviously not what he had in mind. With all these short stacks just over jam preflop, post shouldnt be an issue with this

As played (wtf) push the flop when it is bet 1\7th the pot. As played flop and turn how are we not jamming the river?

I would shove all in flop.
And off course all in river