Originally Posted by Matthew Southall
To me it just feels criminal to open limp preflop... like everything I've been taught in my 16 months of playing poker has been specifically NOT to open limp preflop. I've always been taught that limp-calling is something that only fish do, whilst good regs will take the initiative by either raising or folding.
I don't know if I can bring myself to open limp preflop tbh. There's got to be a way to beat these games without having to resort to that passive fishy behaviour. Why bring myself down to their level?
Why is it fishy to open limp? Explain this to me like I am 3 years old.
Who taught you this? Tell me that also.
I used to think the same way. Someone opened my eyes since then.
These villains are not good you're playing against. It is live, full ring poker. Dude that had QQ should have 3b, but he didn't. Instead, this fish takes a 6w flop with QQ. Obviously, this dude is a drooler. These people aren't going to exploit you. I sincerely doubt anyone is paying enough attention.
You are playing this game to win right? You want to win money? Money saved is money earned. Your goal in this spot should be to flop a set, or get out. You don't have to fight for every single pot you play. And if you must raise, UTG, then wait until you get a better hand than 7-7. It's not going to play well OOP postflop.
Tell me in this spot, what is your plan for postflop... what if flop come K-10-2r? What will you do? Or if it comes A-8-3hh? Or let's say Q-J-6ss. What is your plan in a 6w pot on any of these flops? Just about every flop that doesn't have a "7" in it, is bad for you in a 6w pot.
Even if you have overpair to the board, some dipshit will have a straight draw, or flush draw, then they call. Then, some nasty 10, J, Q, K, A comes off on the turn. Now do we keep betting? Probably still have 2 or 3 villains in with ya.
You made a comment about controlling the raise size. It's almost like you feel you absolutely have to see this flop with 7-7. It's pretty simple though, you limp in, if someone raises, you determine if you have enough IO to setmine (bare minimum 10x for me, but I prefer 15x+). If you don't have correct odds
, then fold. Who cares? On to the next hand.
It seems like you have this mindset like you must win every pot you enter. That's just not going to happen.
I've given some hypothetical scenarios, and reasons why we can open limp here. Give me some reasons why you must raise.
Live low stakes poker is a beast. It plays differently than almost any other game. Micros online are different. Many books simply don't apply to live. 3x raise sizing would be one example. The villains are just so bad, and so passive, and stationy pre and postflop, that we must make some adjustments.