$200 NLHE Full Ring: KK Played Against Unknown Player

Hey guys,

This hand was played a while ago at a live $1-2 game.

The table has been pretty straight forward without any crazy action. A 3-bet pre-flop has signaled either aces or kings, and a raise post-flop is typically the nuts or 2nd nuts.


I find myself in late middle position with KhKd. There are 2 limps in front of me.

I end up raising to $12. (Opening sizing at the table has been between $8 and $15 all night).

Folds around to the BB who calls, and the original 2 limpers elect to fold.

Flop comes out: Js-7h-5d

BB checks to me, I put out $15 into the pot of $29, and he calls fairly quickly.
I feel I have the best hand clearly, and am betting for value at this point. The only cause for concern is an A, or if the board runs out weird. I am pretty committed to this hand.

Turn brings an 8s.
BB checks to me again, I bet out $45, and the BB calls after thinking about it for maybe 10 seconds.
At this point I am putting him on maybe KJ or QJ, I feel that with the way the table has been playing if he had a set or even AJ I could have expected a raise on the flop.

River brings the 5s. The board is now Js-7h-5d-8s-5s with $149 in the pot.
Without much hesitation, he sticks the rest of his stack into the middle for about $130.

I have him covered and have roughly $200.

What is your thought process for this hand? Do you call? Fold? What hand do you put him on? I figured the run out wasn't ideal for my hand, however I don't know how he shows up with a 5 in this situation. Alternatively, I don't know how he shows up with a flush considering the flop bet and his possible holdings to continue in that situation.

Given the way the hand played out, there are only 4 hands I could place him on. Either pocket 7's or 8's and slow playing, KJ and making a power play at me, or a stone cold bluff.

After about 2 minutes of tanking, I look up at him and simply ask him "If I fold will you show?"

He responds with a shrug of his shoulders, to which I snap call him.

He turns over J-9, and my KK takes it down.

What are your thoughts on the hand? Any mistakes I may have made? Would you have called in that position as well?

I was ready for 3 responses when I asked him if he would show. I was ready for yes, no, and no response at all. When he simply shrugged his shoulders, that indicated to me that HE didn't know if HIS hand was good or not. Given the action and the board, I felt calling was correct.

Alright river is a fold.

bet more on flop.

1st tell... quickly calls without thinking... generally this is a simple meaning of drawing.

2nd tell takes time to think... all hes thinking about is making u think its a tough choice but really hes just counting how much he will make


a straight forward table.
someone who bets flop and turn will have hit or have overpair.

someone who leads into someone against that range on a table which isnt doing anything crazy will have that beat.

they dont bet to fold you they bet because they are afraid you will check behind and lose value

So what kind of hand would you put him on then to take that kind of line if he was drawing?

Only thing that makes sense is maybe 9s-10s, 8s-9s?

Do you continue there after the flop with like... As-Ks? AsQs?

putting him on a set after the check/call on the flop...something like 777.

I'm not sure I'd play it differently. ...maybe a slightly bigger bet on the flop.

Easy fold on the river for me. But, nice read in the end.

AK wouldve raised you. I didnt put Ax suited in his range

he has like a 9T, medium pp or something.. im putting him on a straight on the turn minimum. Could have J8 or J7 or even 87

A player who takes time to think also knows how hes putting his money in and live 200nl is bottom of food chain. They dont know when to run bluffs and usually when they bet they tell you your best.

But ive seen players that bad with AJ.

But this is without reads for me so its very hard to attempt to say i call or fold in real time when im not there.

Added details that help with those hero calls is.

His size shove.... if he had a made hand why would he shove so much.... players dont think they need to bet according to your range they just worry about ill try and get a fold.

The player on tilt

Your table image

Is player ready to leave

type of player

I don't mind the way you played it. Only thing I'd done was make raise on flop slightly bigger, and bit bigger on the flop.

I really like your question to him... and your reasoning for calling.
My question for you is...

What would you have done if villain
1. doesn't respond at all???
2. says, "I'll show if you show?"
3. "I don't want you to fold."
4. says "Only way you'll see these two cards, is if you call you bleeping bleepidee bleep..."

4th one is kinda a joke...

what casino ??

i think you need to increase your confident and dont feel too scare lose, so you can play in your A game.

Aces2w1n said:

what casino ??

Click to expand...

This hand was played a while ago at Bally's in AC.

It was probably only my 3rd or 4th time playing live poker at the time and I was completely recreational back then. Played a couple times a year live.

Just a hand that always stuck with me so I figured I would get some feedback here from the community.

I thought you played the hand pretty well. Just know good players can portray reverse tells. I use them all the time when someone is trying to talk to me and get a read. Anyways nice take down. Just curious when is the last time you been to the boardwalk in AC New Jersey because I hear it's pretty dead these days.

Allmine79 said:

I thought you played the hand pretty well. Just know good players can portray reverse tells. I use them all the time when someone is trying to talk to me and get a read. Anyways nice take down. Just curious when is the last time you been to the boardwalk in AC New Jersey because I hear it's pretty dead these days.

Click to expand...

The last time I was there was maybe a year or two ago. Never really spent much time at the boardwalk, for that kind of thing I go to Seaside most of the time with family. Been playing pretty regularly at Parx so I haven't been to Bally's in a while now. For better or worse, the games are better at Parx from my experience, and I haven't suffered some pretty memorable, and inexplicable beats.

Bally's handed me a loss with JJ, on a JQQ board against AK (all-in on the flop), with running Q's of all things. I stood up and walked out without a word.

stokedog4 said:

I don't mind the way you played it. Only thing I'd done was make raise on flop slightly bigger, and bit bigger on the flop.

I really like your question to him... and your reasoning for calling.
My question for you is...

What would you have done if villain
1. doesn't respond at all???
2. says, "I'll show if you show?"
3. "I don't want you to fold."
4. says "Only way you'll see these two cards, is if you call you bleeping bleepidee bleep..."

4th one is kinda a joke...

Click to expand...

To answer your questions:
1. Fold.
2. Probably fold but face down, he's given me enough intel.
3. Call.
4. ? lol

As to my original expected responses of "Yes", "No", and "Silence":

Yes= Fold
No= Call
Silence= Most likely fold.

From my experience I've found that players that are willing to show, very.... very rarely have a weak hand (unless you play "9 high like a boss"). My table image is extremely calm. They gain nothing by attempting to tilt me. With that said, showing a monster hand in that spot better serves their table image. We are playing 9 handed, and this particular person has only been at the table for about 30 minutes (not sure if I mentioned that earlier). There is no reason for him to expose himself as capable of bluffing or making big moves on people this early.

Conversely, I have found that people who are not willing to show, typically have a bluff, or a bluff catcher. Maybe a middle pair or top pair with a weak kicker.

People that are silent, are the ones I worry about. They are the ones I tend to study much deeper, and I feel like in this situation with only 30 min. at the table, it's an ok spot for me to let it go against someone who has completely clammed up and is just busy staring down at his chips. Way too early to tell whether that is strength, fear, or simply their "go-to" posture in an all-in situation.

I think if my read correct

preflop you are representing ATs+,KJs+, 99+

BB calls for some hands have some playable value but not able to 3bet which is

88-JJ, AJs,KQs,QJs, TJs, some times AQs,AKs

flop your cbet does not representing any infor here

every one know this is a dry board for 3bet range

in this board
hand strength is

set, over pair , TP [ about 20% -24%]
one pair [40%]
fold equity [36% -40%]

so your c bet only drives two overs away.
but I think it has value.

at least 60% continue hands you beat most of them.

but I think the problem is turn bet.

__________

I would check turn, hope collect one bet from river or something.

the only river may hurt you is A or J, if my analysis is correct. for A changes a lot of board texture. you cannot get value from one pair [frozen you both]
J you got cracked by a lot J range.

but if you bet here, he tank and call.

I would think he have a bluff catcher type of hand.

but still I would put half of his set to call which is 1.5 of 88, 1.5 of JJ

full range of 6 X99, 6X TT
3 AJs, 2KJs, 4QJs, 4TJs

so river
I think he would shoving for value , if he has JJ, 88, regardless what you hold

he may check TT,99 for safe showdown

he may value his most TPTK range AJs
KJs,

I don't know how he plays for QJs, TJs
value here is fine. or check call is fine if put all these half half

so when he shoves you beat

3AJs, 2KJs, 2QJs, 2TJs
you lost
1.5JJ , 1.588

so easy call.

PS: ask a question

what's your purpose of asking

After about 2 minutes of tanking, I look up at him and simply ask him "If I fold will you show?"

He responds with a shrug of his shoulders, to which I snap call him.

and get shrug of to call?
if he says not what's your act
if he says yes what's your act

what if he ignore you like a monk? but just call time clock, what will you do then?

many thanks.

Hey,

I actually covered my reason for asking in the post right above the one you made. It was the right question to get the information that I needed most of the time.

Answer to the "shrug" situation is covered in my original post at the very bottom.

Thank you for the feedback.



P.S. It was a situation where I was fairly certain I was beat, and I needed to convince myself of that. I asked the question specifically because in my past experience, 2/3 of those answers will result in me folding. When he gives me a 4th option response of a *shrug*, I took that as the closest to a "No" and further analysis provided in my original post. That was the only time that I could call him.
The way the hand played out it was a fold for me. The call was made purely based on read of the player.

This is an interesting spot. These river jams when the draws get there are always very suspicious to me. I really don't know what the optimal play in this spot is. With that being said when decisions are this close it's good to mix in some calls and some folds to try and balance yourself out in the long run. I think in this spot I would advise a fold thought Im not sure I could do it myself.

Stack sizes would be cool, but I have an idea because of jam on river.


Bet bigger OTF, like $20- $25. I like the turn sizing (as played).


Yes call river. He rarely has a FH and just jams the river. Snappy snap call.


NH. This dude had about what I thought he would. He just bets cause he doesn't know what to do.


Edit: Don't post results. Just the hand and decisions.

Beanfacekilla said:

Stack sizes would be cool, but I have an idea because of jam on river.


Bet bigger OTF, like $20- $25. I like the turn sizing (as played).


Yes call river. He rarely has a FH and just jams the river. Snappy snap call.


NH. This dude had about what I thought he would. He just bets cause he doesn't know what to do.


Edit: Don't post results. Just the hand and decisions.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the feedback. I wasn't aware of a policy of not posting the results, however I posted them because of the decission and the read that it was based on. Will keep info to myself in the future. Thanks again.