$200 NLHE Full Ring: I cannot lay this down but I have a HUGE read

Live $1/$3 game, there is so much information going on here it's sort of bewildering.

Villain opens UTG to $25, he has $600 behind. MP calls and it folds to me on BTN. I have and make it $80, I have $330 behind.

Villain is older, Korean guy who is a degen gambler. He is your classically bizarre live player. He is extremely loose and aggor pre but he never folds to 3-bets less than a shove, cannot lay a decent hand down and almost always has it when he shoves postflop. AFAIK he has never bluffed me, I think he likes me.


He says, "Eh, you got kings?" He thinks a bit and calls, MP folds (and shows his hand to his neighbor).

flop (pot $189):
He checks, AND HE STARES RIGHT AT ME!

He is a huge tellbox and always does this when he wants someone to bet or loves the flop.

I check back.

And MP starts tapping his neighbor and gestures helplessly.

turn:
He shoves, $360 to call, $549 in pot.

I am pretty damn sure MP folded an ace, and I know UTG is NOT bluffing, but is there anything I can do but call?

baudib1 said:

I am pretty damn sure MP folded an ace, and I know UTG is NOT bluffing, but is there anything I can do but call?

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Why are you so sure about the ace thing?
Also if villian has us beat (TT,77,AT) wouldn't he bet smaller to 'trap' or whatever. So far you've shown little strength postflop and shoving for double the pot doesn't sound like a line he'd take with a nutty hand. I'd be more inclined to put him on AJ/AQ and call.

fwiw for me its a snap

I call because he probably wouldn't ship with nuts (AT/TT/77).

baudib1 said:

I think he likes me

AND HE STARES RIGHT AT ME!

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This could be the start of something beautiful.

baudib1 said:

And MP starts tapping his neighbor and gestures helplessly.

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This is why you think MP folded an ace, right?

It's really hard to know what to do here...as he rarely folds to 3bets he could easily have AT, TT or 77 and your read (that he has something strong) suggests that the only other hands he could have are AK, AQ or AJ (surely he would fold lower aces pre?).

Just depends whether you want to gamble then. I agree with jbbb the shove does seem weird but you said he was a bizarre player so idk

Here's the first hand I ever saw him play.

He walks in drunk, buys in for $1,000. He raises to $25, calls a 3-bet to $60.

Flop is 442, he checks, guy bets $80, he check-raises to $300, guy shoves for $150 more, he calls with 42dd.

I've never played live but surely his neighbour showing his hand to only 1 other play is cheating? Shouldn't you ask to see those cards?
Without all the tells I've get it in. There's only A7/ A10 that beat us and his range is much wider than that.

I think all this info makes it an easier call

When he asks if you have kings, i would think whatever this means, it will equate to him not having kings...

The MP guy could possibly have had TT? or Ax or even 77 if he tapped his neighbour once the turn was shown...

Plus we've seen this guy check raise the nuts and not shove it, so can we really do anything but call happily here?

Post hand later or whatever im interested.

Also could easily imagine a degen shoving some Ax's here you know, like fish do when they have a good but potentially dominated hand...

acky100 said:

The MP guy could possibly have had TT? or Ax or even 77 if he tapped his neighbour once the turn was shown...

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If he's a normal live player, he's not folding TT pre. And from the way it was described he did it before the turn came. Any reads on MP?

I'm liking a fold, while showing him your K just to make him feel good about putting you on kings. If he likes you he will probably tell you afterwards

I honestly can't see his range being anything other than TT and 77 if the A is gone.

You have to call.FWIW I had the same hand you have here, same flop in a game in Biloxi Miss.a few years ago 3 players to the flop,i had the 3rd best hand.
Edit: what hurt me was the guy with 1010 was short and shove his remaining $80 on the flop,i call BTN called.Me and the BTN had about ~$300 behind.Short stack guy turns over his cards(moron) an we see his hand.

I'm only seeing one of Hero's cards, a Kh, no 2nd card showing.

If you have KK, call, if not, why are you so willing to gamble, and if you were that willing why didn't you press a little harder pre?

dj11 said:

I'm only seeing one of Hero's cards, a Kh, no 2nd card showing.

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Thats odd

Baudib1 had AdKh

micromachine said:

Thats odd

Baudib1 had AdKh

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Snap call then.....in fact, you should have fished the car keys out of your pocket, and offered up your wife.... not married?, hell offer up my wife then!

snap

The guys a degen, surely we shouldnt care when he miraculously shows 77 or TT here because of the times he shows up with even AQ or AJ.

Im pretty sure calling would be profitable here given pot size even if all he can do this with is, AT,77,TT - AQ, AJ.

Do you think he's degen enough to do this with AQ,AJ? If so then like 8 combo's we beat and 9 combo's we are beaten by so easy call.

If we think he's degen enough to play some worse stuff as he never folds to 3bets like A8,A9 etc, then we are laughing no?

edit: reading OP again it seems like villain has probably showed up with TT here. If we know he is not bluffing at all here then i guess it just depends on what he could consider his non-bluffing range to be, so probably all read dependant, if we've seen him do shit like this with potentially dominated hands its a call, but i guess its gonna be real hard to fold because to fold here would need us to know he only does this with the nuts and that would take a lot of live playing i guess

You only need to be right about 40% of the time. If Acky is right with combos assuming they are all weighted evenly and he never shows up with a weaker ace than AJ we have 47% so I think it's a snap call.

A degen probably classes both TT and AJ as the nuts here.

Cafeman31 said:

This could be the start of something beautiful.

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LOOOLLLL

This is a snap ****ing call. People are so bad live, I could def see him raising Ax here or spazzing shoving with something retarded. Raise more pre btw, in thinking AT LEAST 100

It's a tough one with your read, he could have TT or even QQ since he asked about you having KK. The guy tapping the other guy could have folded the TT? I'd say you have to call here tho.. if it's a cooler it's a cooler.

BlueNowhere said:

A degen

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acky100 said:

degen

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acky100 said:

degen

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acky100 said:

degen

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acky100 said:

degen

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Baudib1 said:

degen

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WTF is a degen and why is in every one of Acky's sentences?

degen=degenerate gambler
I think i fell for a level

I guess you called and lost to AT, TT, or A7 if his stare is his tell for a big hand I cannot believe he had 77 and wanted a call with that flop. Top set is hard to lay down I don't think I could have, why didn't you bet the flop?

Why is everyone ignoring baudib's read that MP had the other A?

If that wasn't there we are obviously snapping.

PotluckXXI said:

I guess you called and lost to AT, TT, or A7 if his stare is his tell for a big hand I cannot believe he had 77 and wanted a call with that flop. Top set is hard to lay down I don't think I could have, why didn't you bet the flop?

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Yeah, if you read he has a monster on the flop what do you need to beat him that you haven't got now? (apart from obvious) Why no flop bet ? Surely he's going to pay you off on any street?

rssurfer54 said:

Why is everyone ignoring baudib's read that MP had the other A?

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Why can't MP have had the TT?

From this type of player I'm calling everytime but I would never have checked the flop. Reloading and getting it back will not be all that hard.

Jillychemung said:

Why can't MP have had the TT?

From this type of player I'm calling everytime but I would never have checked the flop. Reloading and getting it back will not be all that hard.

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Because most live players are not folding TT pre to a 3bet.