$200 NLHE Full Ring: Hero fold, standard fold, or nitty?

Ok. I tried to think through this hand and keep coming to the same conclusion. What does she have that I'm beating? She is certainly capable of raising with suited connectors, 6, 7 or 8, 9 for example. She has shown a lot of strength in the hand and I just don't think there is any way I can be ahead. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

playing effective $300

UTG 1,2,3: fold
MP:raise to $8
fold, fold
Button (Hero): call with Ks Qh
fold, fold

Flop : 6d 7d Qc

MP bets $20
Hero raises to $50
MP calls

Turn: Js

MP Bets $75
Hero ?

if she had 6,7 wouldnt she re raise on flop?

1) Why raise the flop?
2) If this is a live game, I'm not folding the turn.

c9h13no3 said:

1) Why raise the flop?
2) If this is a live game, I'm not folding the turn.

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Yeah Live I'm not folding it either...And also asking Why raise the flop? You get called by Most hands that beat you If not re raised, then what do you do when they bet into you as in this case?

super snap fold. this is the strongest line ever. assuming she's remotely competent, this is a set or QJ like 95%.

Yes, this is live. I don't think that worse necessarily folds to a raise. The reason I raised was to minimize loss. If the flop bet is a continuation bet on her part then a call looks kind of weak and encourages a bet on the turn even if it's another continuation bet. I'm not raising the turn for sure so she may bet the river as well. I can't very well fold the river at that point. I figure that if I call the flop, by the river I'm in for about $80. In the long run that $30 raise saves me money if I'm behind.

If she calls the raise it is either a crying call or super strength. It all depends on whether she then bets the turn. If she checks then I am betting the turn because I don't think she is ahead. If she bets into me on the turn after my raise on the flop then I am beat beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Don't raise for information.

Six Hurdles said:

Ok. I tried to think through this hand and keep coming to the same conclusion. What does she have that I'm beating? She is certainly capable of raising with suited connectors, 6, 7 or 8, 9 for example. She has shown a lot of strength in the hand and I just don't think there is any way I can be ahead. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

playing effective $300

UTG 1,2,3: fold
MP:raise to $8
fold, fold
Button (Hero): call with Ks Qh
fold, fold

Flop : 6d 7d Qc

MP bets $20
Hero raises to $50
MP calls

Turn: Js

MP Bets $75
Hero ?

Click to expand...

looks like a defensive bet, like maybe she has 9 10 diamonds erhaps some sort of draw.. i would classify this as a nitty fold because you hit top pair, and if your willing to re raise her on the flop, then your almost commitiing yourself. Usually i give ppl too much credit, and i think this is what is happening here. she could easily have k10, or king with flush draw, when she just calls your raise then donk bets out it could be anything.. so nitty fold cuz you re raised flop to fold the turn to under card?

Hope that helps!
ttyl

I heard a don't bet for information in there somewhere. I keep hearing this but what does it mean in a circumstance like this? If I get no information from her bet and my call, then I get no information from her bet on the turn either. Nor do I have any information on the river if she bets. That seems like a shot in the dark and putting your money in blind doesn't make sense to me. I am not being obstinate and don't want to argue. I understand that most of the time I don't want to bet for information but is there never a case where it will be a benefit? Or perhaps I am missing what information I could get from bet call bet call bet.

Bets are for value or as bluffs or to take down dead money.
Information comes as a side benefit of betting.

Granted there are times when you might want the information more than others, but if you raise for information and then you're still not sure what to do after that, it perhaps wasn't a good idea in the first place.

The problem is your raise is too small if she has any piece/draw so she's probably continuing pretty wide. And if you raise bigger you'd pretty much be better off calling down and keeping the pot as small as possible in position.

Seems like a three bet should have been in order on the flop if they really were playing the best hand there. Could be QT, but just as easily QJ

Six Hurdles said:

Yes, this is live. I don't think that worse necessarily folds to a raise.I disagree, you get all hands to fold except flush draws, TPGK, 2 pair, set, or might get a OESD caller if loose The reason I raised was to minimize loss what you did is raised to get weaker hands that could suck you out to fold while only keeping in the strong hands that already have you beat?. If the flop bet is a continuation bet on her part then a call looks kind of weak and encourages a bet on the turn even if it's another continuation betwhy dont we want her to continue betting? If she is strong and thinks you are weak you might get away with a cheaper hand, if she is weak and thinks you are weak she may bluff at you! You have top pair and a good kicker. Against most villains on the flop this is great. Also, Calling the flop sometimes looks stronger than raising.. In this situation by raising what hand are you representing?.. I'm not raising the turn for sure so she may bet the river as well. I can't very well fold the river at that point. I figure that if I call the flop, by the river I'm in for about $80. In the long run that $30 raise saves me money if I'm behind. It may "save you money" by minimizing your losses but you also cut out your wins too. By taking the line of win the pot on the flop you turn your top pair good kicker into a bluff.

If she calls the raise it is either a crying call or super strength. It all depends on whether she then bets the turn. If she checks then I am betting the turn because I don't think she is ahead. If she bets into me on the turn after my raise on the flop then I am beat beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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For me I would rather play my top pair good kickers differently. I want to make it to a showdown with a small-medium sized pot betting for value while keeping pot managable, unless villian's play dictates that I should think otherwise.

The thing about raising is you should really think about what you are representing by raising. Raising on the flop here you are announcing to the world "I have a King!- please fold" Depending on the player they may use that against you either to bluff or not and say that they have you beat by betting and raising or by making sure that you pay the max amount for a showdown.

In this hand you may have saved yourself some $ with the pre-flop raise but again I think you may have missed some opportunities to gain value from opponents when you have a hand that beats your opponents And by not conceling your hand better or thinking about the hand you are representing by raising on the flop you leave yourself open to being exploited.

For me I would typically take this line:

Pre- Call
Flop: Call
Turn: Call/Bet
River: as long as str8, flush, or A dont come out I Value Bet

Six Hurdles said:

The reason I raised was to minimize loss. If the flop bet is a continuation bet on her part then a call looks kind of weak and encourages a bet on the turn even if it's another continuation bet. I'm not raising the turn for sure so she may bet the river as well. I can't very well fold the river at that point.

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I just wanna say that this makes no sense. If a call/call line can be exploited by her triple barreling the river, then fine, I'm exploitable.

dont play underrolled, dont "block raise"
Depending on how tight/loose our villain is I think raising KQ on this flop is thin and fine.

now call turn.

Call turn and evaluate river. There are still many draws in her range such as 89dd , KTdd, or T9dd that just turned into a double GS aswell as a GS + FD, and a lot of single pairs like QT, Q9 etc.