$200 NLHE Full Ring: Folding JJ in multiway Q high board?

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RAFC24

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Hi all

2 limpers and I make it 10$ with JJ in HJ. 3 callers and the limpers call. Flop is QT5r. I have about 110$ and I am covered.

It checks to me and I check. It checks through. Turn is a 6. First to act leads for about 35$ and I and everyone folds.

Heads up I would c-bet or maybe check call against one guy but is there any merit to betting in a multiway pot like that given my hand and the various ranges? Am I likely behind on this type of board with this many callers?

I am asking this as more of a general poker situation as this type of thing comes up fairly often.

Thanks!
 
TimovieMan

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Is this live or online? Very odd to have so many to the flop online, so I'm assuming it's live.
If live, you should probably raise bigger preflop. Online 5bb is standard.

Postflop is fine either way. If they're betting into 5 others, it's going to be TP+.
 
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Thanks for your answer tim! And yes it was a live game
 
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naruto_miu

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Is this live or online? Very odd to have so many to the flop online, so I'm assuming it's live.
If live, you should probably raise bigger preflop. Online 5bb is standard.

Postflop is fine either way. If they're betting into 5 others, it's going to be TP+.

Why would they check TP and than bet on turn, when turn Is as brick as brick can get? Would they also bet near pot with 2 pair+Into 4 other players for value?
 
TimovieMan

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Why would they check TP and than bet on turn, when turn Is as brick as brick can get?
Whiffed check-raise, for starters.
Would they also bet near pot with 2 pair+Into 4 other players for value?
Live players do all kinds of weird things.

You can wait for a better spot in situations like this.
 
naruto_miu

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Whiffed check-raise, for starters.
Live players do all kinds of weird things.

You can wait for a better spot in situations like this.

That honestly didn't cross my mind at all:eek: , that's a good point. I haven't played live In quite some time, so my questions, and/or replies may seem silly to some (But how else am I gonna learn).

I'm not disputing the fact that "You can wait for better spots", I was just wondering on the odd ball line taken by the villain with the limp call, check flop/ donk bomb turn Into multiple players was all
 
Beanfacekilla

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Hi all

2 limpers and I make it 10$ with JJ in HJ. 3 callers and the limpers call. Flop is QT5r. I have about 110$ and I am covered.

It checks to me and I check. It checks through. Turn is a 6. First to act leads for about 35$ and I and everyone folds.

Heads up I would c-bet or maybe check call against one guy but is there any merit to betting in a multiway pot like that given my hand and the various ranges? Am I likely behind on this type of board with this many callers?

I am asking this as more of a general poker situation as this type of thing comes up fairly often.

Thanks!

If the flop comes K-7-2r, or A-8-3r, maybe we can cbet. A flop like this one, think of all the hands these folks will be playing.... K-J, Q-J, J-10, J-9, K-Q, A-Q, etc, not mention loads of Q-rag, 10-rag, etc trying to hit 2p and suck out. Even AK is peeling one here I think. The point being is don't expect everyone to fold here to a cbet. And your stack is so small that cbetting is pretty much out of the question. You have a medicre hand. In multiway spot, I would just try to get to showdown cheap.




However, you should be raising much bigger then $10. I start with $12, but if there are multiple limpers, $17-$22 range, and that amount can vary based on table dynamics.


And finally, why are you playing short stacked? With your stack, we make value hands, and get it in. The decisions should be easy. Make TPTK ish hands, and get it in. But, the short stack method is also one of higher variance. With a short stack, we will find it tough to setmine, playing suited connectors is usually not a good idea, etc. Pretty much all spec hands are out. You don't have enough money.

Play with a full stack. If you get below $150 (really $180 in my book), we should be topping off. Keep chips in your pocket to add on. If and when you get a monster, you lose value because your rocking a pogo stick.
 
Beanfacekilla

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That honestly didn't cross my mind at all:eek: , that's a good point. I haven't played live In quite some time, so my questions, and/or replies may seem silly to some (But how else am I gonna learn).

I'm not disputing the fact that "You can wait for better spots", I was just wondering on the odd ball line taken by the villain with the limp call, check flop/ donk bomb turn Into multiple players was all


Since it's usually standard to check to the raiser, what is the V supposed to do here? Keep on checking to the river with his K-Q or whatever Qx he has?

This is pretty standard for live play. People love to limp in and play bingo. That is why we punish them with 9x raises, and cbets. After a while, they will start getting all butt-hurt, and make the most horrific calls preflop, because you are messing with their bingo playing, and they are simply tired of folding 10-3s OOP to you.
 
naruto_miu

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Since it's usually standard to check to the raiser, what is the V supposed to do here? Keep on checking to the river with his K-Q or whatever Qx he has?

This is pretty standard for live play. People love to limp in and play bingo. That is why we punish them with 9x raises, and cbets. After a while, they will start getting all butt-hurt, and make the most horrific calls preflop, because you are messing with their bingo playing, and they are simply tired of folding 10-3s OOP to you.

lol, these two statement killed It:)
 
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If the flop comes K-7-2r, or A-8-3r, maybe we can cbet. A flop like this one, think of all the hands these folks will be playing.... K-J, Q-J, J-10, J-9, K-Q, A-Q, etc, not mention loads of Q-rag, 10-rag, etc trying to hit 2p and suck out. Even AK is peeling one here I think. The point being is don't expect everyone to fold here to a cbet. And your stack is so small that cbetting is pretty much out of the question. You have a medicre hand. In multiway spot, I would just try to get to showdown cheap.




However, you should be raising much bigger then $10. I start with $12, but if there are multiple limpers, $17-$22 range, and that amount can vary based on table dynamics.


And finally, why are you playing short stacked? With your stack, we make value hands, and get it in. The decisions should be easy. Make TPTK ish hands, and get it in. But, the short stack method is also one of higher variance. With a short stack, we will find it tough to setmine, playing suited connectors is usually not a good idea, etc. Pretty much all spec hands are out. You don't have enough money.

Play with a full stack. If you get below $150 (really $180 in my book), we should be topping off. Keep chips in your pocket to add on. If and when you get a monster, you lose value because your rocking a pogo stick.

Hi BFK

Thanks for your feedback. A few observations

Why would the two dry A and K high boards be better c-bet candidates? I understand that they hit my raising range better but if guys are calling with their Q rag, plus all aforementioned hands then do you think they are thinking and putting me on a strong range? Also my default assumption about all these 1-2$ guys is they play lots and all types of aces. And most aces will peel one or two putting me in a very tough spot guessing. So there has to be one or two aces or kings on the c-bet candidates. That's how I see it.

Allthough I agree the A and K high flops are slightly better c-bet candidates.

As for short stacking, agree but i am playing with a limited budget :)
 
Beanfacekilla

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Hi BFK

Thanks for your feedback. A few observations

Why would the two dry A and K high boards be better c-bet candidates? I understand that they hit my raising range better but if guys are calling with their Q rag, plus all aforementioned hands then do you think they are thinking and putting me on a strong range? Also my default assumption about all these 1-2$ guys is they play lots and all types of aces. And most aces will peel one or two putting me in a very tough spot guessing. So there has to be one or two aces or kings on the c-bet candidates. That's how I see it.

Allthough I agree the A and K high flops are slightly better c-bet candidates.

As for short stacking, agree but i am playing with a limited budget :)

The reason why we choose K-7-2r, over something like Q-10-7 or the like.... think of how many different hands would have straight draws. Think of how many different hands villain could have that will have draws, pairs, etc. Plus, for whatever reason, bad players always think EVERYONE has AK when they raise.

Like if the flop comes Q-10-3r, they will convince themselves you have AK (because they can beat AK), and then call you with 9-10o (2nd pair shit kicker).


It's just that the success rate on betting a dry board is much higher than a board with obvious straight draws, that doesn't hit what they think you have (AK), etc.


I hope I explained it well enough. I am rushing. About to go to sleep.
 
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