$200 NLHE Full Ring: Cbet or check back this flop?

B

BiWinning

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I was playing a live game of 1/2/3 NLHE tonight. UTG straddles for $6, and I raise it to $20 with QQ. Only UTG calls. UTG has been a bit loose, but not crazy. He isn't going to be calling my $20 raise with random garbage. I have about $150 behind now and UTG has me covered.

The flop comes Kc 8c 5c, and UTG checks. I'm holding a Q of clubs. Normally on a non monotone board, I would check back this flop for pot control, and to try to induce bluffs from the villains weaker hands on the turn. Is it worth c betting in this case since I have the Qc and my equity is a bit stronger against the villain's range?
 
Deco

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I check.
I'd like to give villain the chance to bluff a street or call down wider given our check.

Heck if villain pots the turn and river we may even find a fold. If he checks the turn we've an easy value bet.
 
acky100

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from how fishy live games sound im betting flop and turn to get the most value of of his likely weak range and all the one pair with a flush draw hands he can have that wont find a fold. then checking back the river probably
 
hutz

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Be forewarned, this is just my gut reaction.

I bet this flop, 25-30. I want to have a better idea of where I stand if a club falls on the turn. What hands will he continue with? Probably weak pair with Ac or a K of some sort. Maybe he slow plays a made flush. Either way, I think I'm in position with a much better idea of what he may be holding.

Questions to ask yourself: If I check, what turn cards do I like to see? If I bet, what turn cards suck for me if he calls?

This is a good hand to analyze mathematically. I'ma do that today.
 
youregoodmate

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I check the flop otherwise we get called by a lot of hands that beat us.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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This is going to be close, and I don't think it matters which one you do. I'd be more inclined to bet against bad players and check against good ones. Since he straddled and you've described him as loose, I'd be more inclined to check and try to induce, but whatever.

One note though, the stack to pot ratio is ~4. There is no pot control here. Even if you check a street, villain can put you all in by the river without over betting.
 
Matt Vaughan

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I check. Betting narrows his range more than I'd like and basically destroys his potential turn bluff range. Definitely calling turn bets. If he bets turn and river, I fold. If he bets turn, checks river, I prob bet for value on the river.
 
B

BiWinning

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I think I'm inclined to agree with checking back and calling the turn in this particular case given that the villain wasn't what I'd consider a calling station. A call or checkraise would have likely meant AcX, a king, or better.

I ended up cbetting about $30 and he called. Another king came out on the turn and he led into me for $50. I folded, he showed a king, and then said I would have been in trouble if I was trying to draw to a flush. He probably had AcK, or a two pair that turned to a full house.
 
hackmeplz

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Both are probably fine I prefer to check though you can get value on later streets you have the perfect hand to under-rep so from a balance perspective I much prefer check. But it's live poker against a likely fish so betting's fine too.
 
A2345Razz

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Seems like a pretty easy check to me...im not seeing a ton of value coming from worse except those with decent equity(ready overclubs)...

I also like the idea of inducing a bluff a lot on blank turns.
 
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