$200 NLHE Full Ring: Call with 72o?

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AlexTheOwl

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Hypothetical situation inspired by a tangent in Grinderella's Leak Fixer thread:

Live Game, 9-handed $1/$2.

Table just started, this is the first hand. Everyone has bought in for $200.

Hero is Button with 72o

Four players limp in front of Hero. The SB and BB are both regulars who raise about 15% of their hands.

Call, fold, or (LOL) raise?
 
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braveslice

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I'm confused , why do you ask?

If you think position alone is enough, I disagree, if you think we also have skill edge I disagree with your assumption if we raise or call ;)
 
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AlexTheOwl

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I'm confused , why do you ask?

If you think position alone is enough, I disagree, if you think we also have skill edge I disagree with your assumption if we raise or call ;)

Technically I think we have the equity to call, although PT4's equity calculator is unable to compute this.

Post-flop skills and position are really not factors with this weak a hand against so many competitors. Unless we want to call being smart enough not to stack off if the 7 makes top pair "post-flop skills". We are playing fit-or-fold.

I've often heard the phrase "priced in" at live tables. I am curious about who does and does not feel 'priced in" here, and why.
 
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iAmBadAtPoker

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I feel like the position of the players who limped as well as there tendencies are what would make me want to either call raise or fold. If later position players limped and i had reason to think they never slowplayed limping behind would be more than ok. As far as postflop skills and position not being a factor i would have to disagree. In fact i would say that is literally the only factor. Would you rather play 72o oop against phil ivey or in position against a 10 year old kid? Your ability to read your opponents tendencies as well as put them on an accurate range of hands so that you know when you can make them fold to your 7 high or call down with your pair of sevens. The less post flop skills you have the more hands you will be able to play.thats why laggs are a thing.
 
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iAmBadAtPoker

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Actually i take that back postflop skills are not the only factor. I would imagine that it is possible to get a good price to enter the pot with 72o.perhaps if it was 10 handed and 8 players limped i would ASSUME(dont take my word for it) it would be profitable to comple from the SB.as far as being "priced in" as you put it.ive never heard that term but it sounds like an interesting concept.il have to look into that.
 
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AlexTheOwl

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Post-flop skills:

Sometimes players will justify calling with a fairly weak hand by saying they are confident that they can outplay their opponent after the flop.

This usually involves:
- various bluffs like floating, 3-betting light, betting if scare cards appear on the the boards, etc.
- having the hand-reading skills to know when you are beaten.
- being able to maximize the number of chips won when you are ahead.

Basically, it amounts to saying "Pot odds and equity against my opponent's range don't justify a call, but the chance that I can win big if I am ahead, plus the chance that I can win with a bluff, plus the fact that I'm too smart to lose big, makes it profitable for me to call this weak opponent."

I was discussing possible justifications for calling when I wrote "Post-flop skills and position are really not factors with this weak a hand against so many competitors." Against what will probably be six opponents, with the worst possible hand for this situation, "post-flop skills" cannot reasonably be used as a justification for calling. Being able to out-play your competitors can only do so much for you in any given hand.

I apologize for being unclear.
 
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iAmBadAtPoker

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Being able to out-play your competitors can only do so much for you in any given hand.

I apologize for being unclear.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.even the best player in the world cant expect to win every hand they play with 72o. But that hand might become profitable in very rare occasions when you have great postflop skills and hand reading abilities
 
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AlexTheOwl

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Technically I think we have the equity to call, although PT4's equity calculator is unable to compute this.

Correction: I still haven't been able to calculate this seven-handed, but according to this site:

http://www.propokertools.com/simulations

We don't have the equity six-handed, and our equity seems to decrease the more hands we add.

In real life, I say hey, what the heck, it's only one BB and I'll cry if I folded the winner. But it's a bad play.
 
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c9h13no3

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Raise for 25 Bob's, shove the flop, flip your hand over when your 1 opponent folds.
 
DougPkrMonsta

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Folding the winner isn't a thing. Your job in the hand is done once you have made the correct decision based on all available information.

Fold this junk and then pay attention and start assigning ranges to what people are limping in with and how your opponents are playing postflop - then you can figure out how you should adjust in future hands to be more profitable.

Make profitable plays (a lot) and over time you will win money.

Good luck to you!
 
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AlexTheOwl

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Raise for 25 Bob's, shove the flop, flip your hand over when your 1 opponent folds.

Now that's the fun way to do it!

Make profitable plays (a lot) and over time you will win money.

Good luck to you!

I've been a winning 2/5 live rec player for more than 20 years, so I don't play -EV hands on a regular basis. But I'll take all the rungood I can get, so thanks, and GL to you too!
 
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braveslice

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I changed my mind, 72o callable if we are close of ultimate skill level and we know every opponent by heart.

It seems we have around 0.1% chance to flop monster and 4% chance for 2 pair, even though 2 pair can’t be too profitable if pot starts to grow, so we need know what we are against.
 
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Beanfacekilla

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Hypothetical situation inspired by a tangent in Grinderella's Leak Fixer thread:

Live Game, 9-handed $1/$2.

Table just started, this is the first hand. Everyone has bought in for $200.

Hero is Button with 72o

Four players limp in front of Hero. The SB and BB are both regulars who raise about 15% of their hands.

Call, fold, or (LOL) raise?


Fold. Or just move in. :D
 
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Rational Madman

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Only ever consider to play 72 if it's suited tbh... 72o is only going to be a known win if you catch 3kind and others are loose enough to raise hard with just a pair etc.

You are willing to wager on hitting 3 of a kind? What if they have FH?... Literally think... You are always on lower end of almost any deepstack-pot exchange... >.>
 
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