$200 NLHE Full Ring: Bottom Two Pair Facing Raise

Y

yodachoda

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Reads: The main villain in this hand, the one in MP, is a bit loose preflop. Other than that, don't have much on him. The other two villains are HUGE fish and are very loose preflop. One of the villains checked the 2nd nuts, fullhouse, on the river after others checked.

Stacks: I have $145, MP has about 200, other two have about $80.

Preflop, UTG limps, MP limps, CO and button limp, SB completes, I check in the BB w/ 4
club.gif
5
spade.gif
. Flop comes 4
diamond.gif
5
diamond.gif
8
heart.gif
. SB checks, I bet $10, UTG folds, MP raises to $25. CO and button call, SB folds.

Hero?
 
REI53

REI53

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Scary board...aniways, imo u should call and see what the turn brings...it's highly unlikely that one of them have already the str8 i would say...
 
bgomez89

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yuck. I don't really like to call here because there's so much dead money in the pot since those other guys are probably chasing a draw or have TP. Problem is, the only raise we can make is probably a shove (since there's about $100 in the pot and we have about $135 right?). Yeesh....I think i personally would just shove since only 88 and 67 are beating us(obv set of 4s and 5s are unlikely) and villain would probably call us with overs, TP, or draw+pair combos
 
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yodachoda

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Yeah, keep in mind that the two callers may very well have weaker ranges than you might imagine. Based on what I've seen them do so far, I wouldn't be suprised if one of them called w/ like A7 or just top pair. That's a possible $50 dead money.

On the other hand, MP's raise is pretty strong, he made the raise w/ a lot of players yet to act.

More comments guys?
 
GrimlyGrim

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I say shove. Really that raise doesn't scare me as much as the calls. There is just so many draws that you have to make them pay for it. As of right now though I think you have the best hand even with how everyone else has played it.
 
REI53

REI53

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What u win with the shove here?
hands like 88, A8, 67, 7X, 6X, are never going to fold i assume...
 
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Zybomb

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This is usually a fold here in a 6 way limp pot with straight possibilities already plus the fact that we'd be balloning a pot that is so small with only bottom 2 on a vulernable board... but you're playing with a bunch of idiots, so I guess shipping it isn't too bad since we'll be called by flush draws, pair/gutshots, 8x etc
 
Sysvr4

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I assume this was a live hand?

It's a tough spot, because as it was mentioned earlier your only real raising option is a shove, where you only get called by better hands. But I also hate leaving dead money on the table with the other callers, so decisions decisions...

I'm not a huge fan of shoving here, despite the wet board, because I think we're usually behind here given the passive nature of 1/2 live. It's rare someone is raising any 8 here, but 99-JJ are realistic enough possibilities that I think we have to call the flop and reevaluate the action on the turn. It's a smallish raise (into a smallish pot), and if a 3,6,9, or diamond fall on the turn, we may just get away from the hand if CO or button wakes up and raises our villain before it gets back to us.

If a non-diamond paint falls, then we expect our villain to slow down if he has a hand that we beat (99-JJ, A8-J8s, etc), in which case you can bet a safe river for value. That said, in the face of serious, continued aggression from villain on the turn, it's a fold.
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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shove. this is live 1/2. the fish call with so many draws that we kill, and most players at 1/2 will try to slowplay flopped straights or sets. I think tp, overpairs and straight pair combos are the hands that raise here. Only hand I would be really afraid of after shoving is a better two pair, but I think the most likely scenario is that the mp player folds and at least one of the two fish calls.
 
JimmyBrizzy

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I'm torn here between folding or shoving.

Reasons I don't like calling:

*You're going to see the turn with four players, meaning a larger pot, less chances anyone is folding before the river, and there are a decent amount of turn cards that suck for you. The only cards you would be super happy with would probably be a 4 or 5.

*You can't win this pot immediately (even if it's unlikely).

I might lean towards a shove since it is 1/2 and it seems like you have some pretty crappy players at your table, but I also think folding is fine. So here's the breakdown. I am assuming you're at a casino and trying to enjoy yourself or planned on playing poker for a little while. If you don't mind gambling a little bit and experiencing some variance then a shove would be acceptable. If you just got there and planned on playing for a decent amount of time, fold.
 
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