$200 NLHE Full Ring: Bad Beat or bad play

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loaderseven

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I played lived 1/3 USD, game in my local casion. I had two hands that I played I was doubting.

First Hand.

UTG $350, opens 8 dollars,
Folds around
(Me) CO $300 flat with :2d4::2d4:
BB $160 calls as well, we go to flop 3 ways

The flop came

:2h4::10h4::3c4:

The BB check,
UTG Bets $20 into pot of $15

I played with the UTG player before he usually plays tight and aggressive, he goes very aggressive with his big pair hand, and he be very sticky with it. I know I can stack him up with these board.

So I go head and reraise up $80 dollars.

The BB snap folded,

The UTG player tanked about 30 sec and announced all in, which have me covered.

At this spot I thinking he would at best have pocket 10s and JJ+ or front door flush draw, at the most time I should be still ahead with a Set. So I snap called.

He turn over pocket :jd4::jh4:

The dealer deals out the turn and river

:jd4::js4:

He took it down with Quad J

I was thinking if I flat with his raise, and play the turn and river, I might able to pick up tells or things or two that can get me out this situation?
 
puzzlefish

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I don't think you can fold your set as played. That was just a bad run out for you, but in the long run you would print money in that situation.

Had you called instead of raising, you may have been able to get away with less damage once he got his set on the turn, but he could just as easily have checked back the set and disguised the hand. Once you hit the boat on the river it would likely be the same result.

Overall just a cooler.
 
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xrhstos

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When the money went in you are drawing thin to pocket 10s, anything else you dominate.
You played the hand as you should have but the deck wasn't your friend this time.
Try to not be results oriented.
 
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jokr23

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Looks like it was just a bad luck to me. Seems like you played it OK just too bad that it was a quads against your 3 of a kind
 
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c0rnBr34d

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This is the dream scenario. You should not be looking for different ways to play it. You got it all in and V only had 2 outs. You were way ahead. That's the goal. After that, if they hit, they hit. You want to be in the same spot more, not less. You will be printing money getting stacks in on flops vs 2 outs. Slow playing it could easily kill your action here. If you flat and the turn is a heart or an Ace, K, Q, T (that's like 21 cards, almost half the deck). Then stacks don't go in.

Anytime people ask how to fold sets on non flush / straight boards I really don't give it much effort. In my opinion there are much more useful things to work on in your game and that should be near the end of the list. If you never fold a set on a non straight / flush board you're probably not making any large mistakes. The very very few times that it will be incorrect are just not significant enough to focus on until you're a super crusher.
 
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quant1986

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Preflop calling small pairs from CO against competent UTG 2.5x open probably not profitable play.
 
puzzlefish

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Preflop calling small pairs from CO against competent UTG 2.5x open probably not profitable play.
I think not calling with small pairs in this situation would be -EV. It's the right price to set mine and it would be foolish not to give it a shot.
 
freddydr87

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You play it perfectlly,the vilain face a raise and he went all in with an overpair,a very poor play,iff u call and the turn is a J,u probably would have ended with all chips in the middle anywais,but his play would be good(because he hit a set turn) for me thats is very important,i allwais try to put all when im in front, so i played well and sometimes im going to be bad beated.
 
WVHillbilly

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This is a bad beat not a hand for analysis. You were set mining, hit your set, and got stacks in. Nice job.
 
Watcheman

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I think you played right.
You just call before flop maybe you should did raise before flop but I think the pair of JJ are not thrown. so after it you good position and do reraise but on the flop 2♥10♥3♣ he just thought that you have maybe A10 or flush dro. But what happened next is called unlucky.

How do you think if you just call his bet 20$ and after it call his next bet for example 40-50$ and on the river call maybe 70-90$ - Would you believe that he has a pair of JJ???;)
I played lived 1/3 USD, game in my local casion. I had two hands that I played I was doubting.

First Hand.

UTG $350, opens 8 dollars,
Folds around
(Me) CO $300 flat with :2d4::2d4:
BB $160 calls as well, we go to flop 3 ways

The flop came

:2h4::10h4::3c4:

The BB check,
UTG Bets $20 into pot of $15

I played with the UTG player before he usually plays tight and aggressive, he goes very aggressive with his big pair hand, and he be very sticky with it. I know I can stack him up with these board.

So I go head and reraise up $80 dollars.

The BB snap folded,

The UTG player tanked about 30 sec and announced all in, which have me covered.

At this spot I thinking he would at best have pocket 10s and JJ+ or front door flush draw, at the most time I should be still ahead with a Set. So I snap called.

He turn over pocket :jd4::jh4:

The dealer deals out the turn and river

:jd4::js4:

He took it down with Quad J

I was thinking if I flat with his raise, and play the turn and river, I might able to pick up tells or things or two that can get me out this situation?
 
Watcheman

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It's again me :D:D:D

By the way did you think that he might have a triple of 333 or tens??? May be triple of tens is unlikely of this situation but it also happens but the triple even the weakest usually are not thrown away...
I played lived 1/3 USD, game in my local casion. I had two hands that I played I was doubting.

First Hand.

UTG $350, opens 8 dollars,
Folds around
(Me) CO $300 flat with :2d4::2d4:
BB $160 calls as well, we go to flop 3 ways

The flop came

:2h4::10h4::3c4:

The BB check,
UTG Bets $20 into pot of $15

I played with the UTG player before he usually plays tight and aggressive, he goes very aggressive with his big pair hand, and he be very sticky with it. I know I can stack him up with these board.

So I go head and reraise up $80 dollars.

The BB snap folded,

The UTG player tanked about 30 sec and announced all in, which have me covered.

At this spot I thinking he would at best have pocket 10s and JJ+ or front door flush draw, at the most time I should be still ahead with a Set. So I snap called.

He turn over pocket :jd4::jh4:

The dealer deals out the turn and river

:jd4::js4:

He took it down with Quad J

I was thinking if I flat with his raise, and play the turn and river, I might able to pick up tells or things or two that can get me out this situation?
 
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loaderseven

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It's again me :D:D:D

By the way did you think that he might have a triple of 333 or tens??? May be triple of tens is unlikely of this situation but it also happens but the triple even the weakest usually are not thrown away...


I gave tripe tens a thought but not the tripe threes.
 
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fundiver199

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This is the dream scenario. You should not be looking for different ways to play it. You got it all in and V only had 2 outs. You were way ahead. That's the goal. After that, if they hit, they hit. You want to be in the same spot more, not less. You will be printing money getting stacks in on flops vs 2 outs. Slow playing it could easily kill your action here. If you flat and the turn is a heart or an Ace, K, Q, T (that's like 21 cards, almost half the deck). Then stacks don't go in.

Anytime people ask how to fold sets on non flush / straight boards I really don't give it much effort. In my opinion there are much more useful things to work on in your game and that should be near the end of the list. If you never fold a set on a non straight / flush board you're probably not making any large mistakes. The very very few times that it will be incorrect are just not significant enough to focus on until you're a super crusher.

I could honestly not have said it any better. OP should read this comment again and again, until he has truly taken it in. If Villain had folded his overpair on the flop, that is the time to ask, if maybe you played to fast. When he got it in with 2 outs, what more do you then want other than to get lucky?
 
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c0rnBr34d

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I could honestly not have said it any better. OP should read this comment again and again, until he has truly taken it in. If Villain had folded his overpair on the flop, that is the time to ask, if maybe you played to fast. When he got it in with 2 outs, what more do you then want other than to get lucky?
Thanks fundiver, haven't seen you post in a while. Good to have you back. Looking forward to reading more of your posts.
 
Aballinamion

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Mathematical event

I played lived 1/3 USD, game in my local casion. I had two hands that I played I was doubting.

First Hand.

UTG $350, opens 8 dollars,
Folds around
(Me) CO $300 flat with :2d4::2d4:
BB $160 calls as well, we go to flop 3 ways

The flop came

:2h4::10h4::3c4:

The BB check,
UTG Bets $20 into pot of $15

I played with the UTG player before he usually plays tight and aggressive, he goes very aggressive with his big pair hand, and he be very sticky with it. I know I can stack him up with these board.

So I go head and reraise up $80 dollars.

The BB snap folded,

The UTG player tanked about 30 sec and announced all in, which have me covered.

At this spot I thinking he would at best have pocket 10s and JJ+ or front door flush draw, at the most time I should be still ahead with a Set. So I snap called.

He turn over pocket :jd4::jh4:

The dealer deals out the turn and river

:jd4::js4:

He took it down with Quad J

I was thinking if I flat with his raise, and play the turn and river, I might able to pick up tells or things or two that can get me out this situation?

Hi there loaderseven, good morning! How do you do? Thank you for posting your hand!
I would like to say that I am just a micro-stakes player, and a very weak one. I do not have intention to offend you because I am in a lower level, but I found your hand very interesting and I think it is a good ideia to have some thoughts about it.

Against this UTG range you pictured: TT,33,JdJh,ATs+,A5s-A2s,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AQo+ we would have 45.81% equity for calling preflop, if we have foreseen a recreational player towards, in the SB or BB.
I am not sure, but I think that for 200 NLHE this is the rigth call. At the micros this is call quite debatable. But it is not the case.
If we put all the possible combos of hearts in UTG's range, we will have a 40.27% for this call, which is okay, having information that neither SB nor BB are vicious Squeezors.

The shove flop

If I were playing 200 NLHE having this specific range information on V's, I would call this all-in everytime. In the worst case ever, if UTG really has all the combos of hearts in its range, we will have 67% equity for calling this all-in, which it seems to me, turns the cold call instantly profitable.
If UTG has no combos of hearts at all, we are winning here something as 80%?
Very well played! What do we call "bad beat" is just an abstract mathematical event, that will certainly happen from time to time, (in this case we are 67% we win and V would win 32.98%, so we observe they are really great numbers) and those times are when we are destroying V's range, like in this situation.
Many players at the micro stakes do the same buddy: They have JJ+ and they see a lower semi-dry flop like this and them they decide to jam, only to get called by better hands. Many players love to shove a flush draw here. Yes, Villain would have so few combos of 33 and TT, in the long run that we don't need to worry about it.
Sorry again, 200 NLHE it is not my league, but I hope to give you some insights: it is clear for us that the UTG Villain is not playing poker: it is playing cards

Villain's dramatic perception of the game:

"Omg! I have pocket jacks and there's only a Tx in the flop? I am finally winning! What a dream! No Ax, no Kx, no Qx in the flop! I must have the best hand...and...it is ALL-IN! Villain will certainly think that I am bluffing and call me with all of his draws, his worse pocket pairs because now that I have Pocket J's, not even God could be winning. Yes! All-in it is..OH! NO!!!!! EVERYTIME THEY HIT THE SET, EVERYTIME! Everytime! Everytime! EVERY-TIME! NO! NO! These things only happen to me EVERYTIME, why the world is so cruel and NO!!!! I'M GOING TO BRAKE MY COMPUTER, DESTROY THE WORLD AND..oh! what a nice Turn! I knew I was ahead, and Omg! river is so sweet! Maybe I am the best player in the world"

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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fundiver199

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Thanks fundiver, haven't seen you post in a while. Good to have you back. Looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Welcome. I almost exclusively play tournaments at the moment, which is why, I am not so active in the cash game forum, as I used to be.
 
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