$200 NLHE Full Ring: AK faces Odd Overbet Shove from Competent Reg

zachvac

zachvac

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$200 NL HE Full Ring: AK faces Odd Overbet Shove from Competent Reg

Villain is one of the best 200nl players on FTP. Just had a 20k month last month at like 5 PTBB/100. Plays pretty TAG and obviously extremely solid postflop.

full tilt poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

Hero (BTN): $503.20
SB: $200.00
BB: $490.05
UTG: $85.95
MP: $197.00
CO: $200.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN with A
heart.gif
K
club.gif

3 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, BB calls $5

Flop: ($15.00) Q
club.gif
A
diamond.gif
T
spade.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($15.00) J
diamond.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $483.05 all in
 
Last edited:
dsvw56

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Why are you not 3-betting here?


Anyways, in all seriousness I fold here. He's obviously not doing this without a king, and if he's as good as you say, I don't think there's any way he does it without KdXd.
 
zachvac

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Why are you not 3-betting here?


Anyways, in all seriousness I fold here. He's obviously not doing this without a king, and if he's as good as you say, I don't think there's any way he does it without KdXd.

Sorry the converter messed the hand up, fixed now.
 
blankoblanco

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Why are you not 3-betting here?


Anyways, in all seriousness I fold here. He's obviously not doing this without a king, and if he's as good as you say, I don't think there's any way he does it without KdXd.

man, you were supposed to wait for 20 people to say "um lol call, are you serious" first

way to ruin the thread!!!
 
zachvac

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man, you were supposed to wait for 20 people to say "um lol call, are you serious" first

way to ruin the thread!!!

Yeah this. It should be relatively obvious to people thinking about it, just wanted to see how many people would be able to muck the nuts. This also is a good lesson in why equity is more important than made hand value. This is also the reason I messed up with the hand initially, because it wasn't really played by me, just posted over in 2p2 (the solid reg posted it from his pov) so I wanted to see how many people here would notice that and make the fold.
 
SeanyJ

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I was going to say that he is probably free rolling with you and it would probably be better to just fold. Then I noticed how deep it is and I realized it's absolutely a no doubt fold.
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Just out of curiosity, why no bet on the flop?
 
blankoblanco

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firstly we don't have a hand that can get 3 streets without improving (and on this board, we might not even get 3 streets from worse when we do improve), so betting for value isn't incredibly necessary

second, we aren't all that worried about the draws so betting for protection isn't needed too much. if the J comes we obviously make broadway. and the K might not even be a bad card because it puts us ahead of several two pairs and we're only worried about a J. there are only a few hands with a J in it that BB would be defending. if he has one of them, we won't lose much

checking can induce a bet on the turn from a hand with no showdown value that is just hoping we have a small pair or suited connector that was afraid to c-bet this board

i wouldn't say you can't bet, but checking is good, especially against a very good player since it's one of the only chances you have at inducing a mistake
 
bubbasbestbabe

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But in this you got what you wanted by him checking the flop. So he bets the turn. And you fold. If you wanted this situation why would you fold then? Why not bet the flop?
 
blankoblanco

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well on the flop we didn't know he was going to openshove almost 250 BBs on a J turn

that's a difficult thing to predict
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Don't mind my questions here trying to figure some things out. So wouldn't you say a shove of that extent might be an out and out steal? As predicted by the WA/WB theory?
 
blankoblanco

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well do you think any good player would be insane enough to push 240 BBs into a pot of 7 BBs as a bluff? because i don't. it would have to work like 98% of the time to be profitable (didn't actually do the math, but you get the idea)

if they were going to take a stab with air they'd just make a normal bet or bet the pot
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Maybe the tables I'm playing at then aren't in the realm of these because I have run into this numerous times. And the end result is usually that the shover was doing just that. To me I wouldn't be shoving till the river if I had the nuts. This is why I would be calling this.
 
zachvac

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Maybe the tables I'm playing at then aren't in the realm of these because I have run into this numerous times. And the end result is usually that the shover was doing just that. To me I wouldn't be shoving till the river if I had the nuts. This is why I would be calling this.

The problem is that if we (as the guy with the Kxdd) don't shove until the diamond hits, we don't get value from the straight without the diamond. This way we get villain to put his money in and he's drawing to stay chopping.
 
skoldpadda

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Clear fold as above. Totally horrible play by villain if he assumes you're competent and he has the hand he's repping. I mean why would you blow out a hand you're tied with for a freeroll when you can simply CR the turn or lead out smaller? I really don't understand his play. The pot is so small and he could earn so much more if he plays it differently and hits the river.
 
bubbasbestbabe

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Totally horrible play by villain if he assumes you're competent and he has the hand he's repping. I mean why would you blow out a hand you're tied with for a freeroll when you can simply CR the turn or lead out smaller? I really don't understand his play. The pot is so small and he could earn so much more if he plays it differently and hits the river.


See this is my thinking. If the villain is as competent as you say he is then why the bet that he made? It makes no sense.
 
blankoblanco

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Totally horrible play by villain if he assumes you're competent

fwiw what he thinks of us isn't really established in the OP. that does make a difference of course. if we're mostly unknown to him, i think it's a very good play with the nuts + redraw because what % of players are folding the nuts on the turn? it's pretty low. if he knows we're a winning player, then it gets iffier. i'm still sure that many, many winning players wouldn't fold the nuts here, just not sure how many and if it's enough to make it less profitable than playing it normally
 
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if he does bluff here without a K 1 in 5 times then u should call but i dont think he does that so fold imo
 
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switch0723

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in villains shoes, a bet of $120 is much better option imo, since it can be conceived as a misbet, and is more likely to get shoved over by a king instead of asking a king to call off
 
blankoblanco

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in villains shoes, a bet of $120 is much better option imo, since it can be conceived as a misbet, and is more likely to get shoved over by a king instead of asking a king to call off

hm i like this. maybe do like 112 or 122 or 111 though, looks more like you were trying to bet 12 or 11. no way to accidentally hit a 0 while typing 12 really, right?

but yeah, something like that is pretty cool. more likely to get and action, and even if he somehow just calls and the diamond comes, it's still going to be really hard for him to let himself fold to a shove since he'll be so mind-fked at that point and not know if you're just making a desperate play at the pot because you misclicked or what. bit of an implied angle, but poker is a game about tricking people so i don't see anything wrong with it
 
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switch0723

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hm i like this. maybe do like 112 or 122 or 111 though, looks more like you were trying to bet 12 or 11. no way to accidentally hit a 0 while typing 12 really, right?

good point :eek:

but yeah, i fold to the overbet shove as it is, if villain was to bet 1 of those ^^^ however, i can't imagine how id be able to fold
 
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