$200 NLHE Full Ring: AA on ugly board, call or fold river?

Y

yodachoda

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$200 NL HE Full Ring: AA on ugly board, call or fold river?

No read on villian, he hasn't shown down a single hand yet.

I've got $180, villian has $200. Preflop, I raise to $7 w/ A
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A
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, villian makes it $25 in the CO. Folds to me and I smooth call. Flop comes K
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Q
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2
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. I check, he bets $30, I call. Now here's where it starts to get ugly. Turn is Q
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. Goes check check. River is K
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. I check, villian bets $60. I fold.

Correct fold? Comments on pf, flop or turn? I figured if he has like JJ or AJ, he'd check back river because he has showdown value.
 
ben_rhyno

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I would figure here that he could either:
a) bet AJ here thinking KKQQA is good
b) hold AK/AQ judging from the preflop 3-bet
c) hold JJ and since you both checked the turn thinks he can get you off the pot as you don't have a K or Q


I definitely think there are kings and/or queens (disregard pocket QQ and KK as they are unlikely) in his range and the fold was correct. I don't have experience at these stakes and I'm sure someone else can give you a better explanation but I think the fold here is correct most of the time.
 
blueskies

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Looks like a value bet on the river. Fold. I would have shoved preflop.
 
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yodachoda

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Yeah I rarely slowplay KK or AA preflop. But here, I was closing the action so I didn't have to worry about a multiway pot.
 
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yodachoda

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Yes its live. And yeah, the flop wasn't good for AA, but a check fold on the flop is bad IMO.
 
ben_rhyno

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What about check raising the flop?
 
blankoblanco

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postflop is standard, there's not really much other way to play it in my mind

preflop is debatable. without a read to suggest otherwise i'd just go ahead and 4bet to $60. i don't hate flatting because a 4bet does look so much like AA/KK. but i don't think it's optimal against a live unknown, he might call a 4bet with all sorts of hands that he shouldn't. and also you're out of position so smooth calling can lead to spots like this where the board comes out cruddy and you can't really navigate it ideally, and you don't have reads on how he plays postflop
 
WVHillbilly

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It's live $1/$2 his 3bet range preflop is like almost always willing to play for stacks, just 4bet/call shove preflop.
 
JimmyBrizzy

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It's live $1/$2 his 3bet range preflop is like almost always willing to play for stacks, just 4bet/call shove preflop.

Exactly why I asked if this was live. You are missing value by not 4betting/getting it in here vs any random live player. This is a fact.
 
bgomez89

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4 bet pre because not only is he likely to shove but if he calls you don't have to make as many hard decisions on the flop as youll be shoving pretty much everytime no matter what the texture. Smooth calling oop(i think youre oop right?) With AA is dangerous imo.
 
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salex77

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I disagree with the way you played AA preflop !the raise is fine to $7 but when he rr you on 3 bet I would now rr allin and he prob most likely will cal depending on his type loose aggressive or he folds and you avoid the board getting ugly and bad ! 200 is not much in chips. I assume youre playing 1/2NL based on the preflopbet and the 2nd option would be to checkraise your opponent on theflopand when he raises to 60 then rr him allin thus avoiding the board pairing creating a full house quads or whatever. I also out on ak, kk, qq you dont know but again I dont know the type of opponent you up vs!
 
bgomez89

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^ villain never bet 60 till the river
 
ljove

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I don't know any other thing then fold.You should shove pre but you would lose if he calls you :-(
 
BelgoSuisse

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No read on villian, he hasn't shown down a single hand yet.

You don't need to see show downs to have reads on villain. Is there any 3bet history on him or you at the table?

Also, in a live game raising to $7 preflop is probably a little too small. $10 will get you just as much action and makes the postflop game easier.
 
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chowie

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4betting pf.. Especially against unknown.. And i kinda agree that raising to 7 for live game is pretty small.. But if that's the standard in the live games you're playing its fine.. Post flop, i think is okay.. although there is a slight chance he plays JT/J9/T9 that way.. Just hate playing OOP and not being the aggressor esp against unknowns, that's y i'm 4 betting pf..
 
ben_rhyno

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Anyone care to give an answer to whether a flop checkraise is reasonable?
 
blankoblanco

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well the first thing to recognize is a flop c/r would clearly be bad against anyone decent, because you'd only get action from better hands.

now against an unknown live player it's possible he could have AK and go broke, i guess maybe even KJ although that's pretty unlikely (both because of the 3bet PF and the fact that he might fold it to a c/r anyway). but it's still too likely he has KK/QQ/KQ or something that you beat but still end up getting more value from by just calling. it's true that in this case the board came out kind of bad, but overall we really don't have a very vulnerable hand at all. most turn and river cards aren't going to change who's in the lead (aka a way ahead/way behind situation). definitely would not even consider a c/r
 
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