$200 NLHE Full Ring: 80NL Live - JQ on JQ89 board

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6bet me

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My local casino does $1/$2 cash games with an $80 max buy-in. I had $67 on the table and everyone else had between $80 and $200.

Hero (SB) is dealt Jh Qc
Hero (SB) posts $1
BB posts $2
UTG calls $2
UTG+1 and UTG+2 are sitting out
MP calls $2
HJ folds
CO calls $2
BTN calls $2
Hero (SB) raises to $6
BB calls $6
UTG calls $6
MP calls $6
CO calls $6
BTN calls $6

$36 in pot
Flop shows Qh Jc 8d

Hero checks
BB checks
UTG checks
MP bets $10
CO raises to $20
BTN folds
Hero calls $20
BB folds
UTG calls $20
MP calls $20

$116 in pot
Hero has $41 left behind
Turn shows 9h

Hero bets $21
UTG folds
MP raises to $80 and is all-in
CO folds
Hero calls $20

Now I'll explain my reasoning:

This table was a very loose table. People would play almost every hand. I raised out of position preflop because I knew that people with terrible hands (like 58 offsuit) would call my raise and that I could get more value in the pot.

When the flop came out, I was quite happy, although I was a bit worried about someone flopping a straight. There were no flush draws so I thought I didn't really need to protect my hand. I thought that the best thing I could do was to slow-play my hand. I let other players bet first (other players bluffed more than me) so that I could get more value in the pot. I put them on hands like Q5 or J7 (the kind of hands they would limp in and then call all the way down) and so I didn't want to scare them out of the pot by immediately shoving. Plus I thought that if I shoved, the only hands that would call me would be hands that had me beat, so there was no point.

Once the turn came out, I thought I'd lost the pot because anyone with a T would've hit their straight. Nevertheless, I didn't want to be bluffed out of the pot, so I made a blocker bet. My logic was that if everyone checked to the last villain, he would make a bet regardless of whether he had the straight or not, and I didn't want that to happen, so I made a bet that might get called by a worse hand (due to the amount of calling stations on the table), but also a bet that could represent the straight and kick other players off the hand. I just didn't want to be bluffed off of what could potentially have still been the best hand.

After I got raised on the turn, I thought it was almost inevitable that I'd lost, but I looked at the pot odds. All I needed was about a 15-20% chance of winning to make the last $20 worthwhile. If I thought there was an 80% chance I would lose the hand but a 20% chance he was bluffing, then it would've been worth me making the call (due to how much money was at stake), so I called him for my last $20.

Is my reasoning invalid? What did I do wrong? What should I have done instead?
 
ConDeck

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$200 NLHE Full Ring: 80NL Live - JQ on JQ89 board

Jam flop, your never folding this short so get value from Qx, draws and over pairs while etc while you are ahead. .. Easy shove short stacked. Slow playing is not an option on this stack as you can never fold. Even if everyone folds (which they won't I can almost guarantee it) you increase your stack over 100%. Turn play awful, can't blocker bet here with you stack size and it wouldn't work anyway even deep all you do is commit yourself further to the pot (although you were anyway)

Overall horrendous play (no offence)

Future advice.

Flat call or shove pre only depending on opp and table image, hand to speculative to pathetically raise a pot on your stack size. your raise size is no where big enough here nor are your raising for value with this hand.

I am never playing cash this short however I should add. I am always reloading to 100bb when I drop below 80. If you can't afford to do this, you are playing stakes outside your limit.
 
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Do you mean shove immediately on the flop, or check-raise them all in? If I'd shoved immediately then I would've only won $36, so I would've missed an extra $30 in value. I knew that someone would bet for me, so it didn't seem to make any sense to act first and make everyone else fold.

My logic was that a 9 or T was unlikely to come up, so it wasn't profitable for anyone with a gut shot to be calling that $20 bet in the first place.

Plus the maximum buy-in was $80 at this casino. If you want to buy in for $200, you need to go to a $1/$3 table.
 
ConDeck

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$200 NLHE Full Ring: 80NL Live - JQ on JQ89 board

Do you mean shove immediately on the flop, or check-raise them all in? If I'd shoved immediately then I would've only won $36, so I would've missed an extra $30 in value. I knew that someone would bet for me, so it didn't seem to make any sense to act first and make everyone else fold.

My logic was that a 9 or T was unlikely to come up, so it wasn't profitable for anyone with a gut shot to be calling that $20 bet in the first place.

Plus the maximum buy-in was $80 at this casino. If you want to buy in for $200, you need to go to a $1/$3 table.


I prefer the check jam here, for the added value as you said, if you sure some one is going to bet for you. You have an awkward stack size so betting isn't really beneficial as your more or less committed then no matter the run out and looks like it's a passive table so everyone is just flatting. On a very aggressive table you could bet to induce a raise and stack off, but in this dynamic check jam is correct. Your nearly always ahead ahead here.

As for a 9 or T call not being profitable... Whether this is true or not the table sounds very fishy and it is capitalising on the non profitable mistakes of fish that gives us the majority of our profit... Never be surprised as to what people will call you with. I have seen all sorts, especially at these stakes. Do not make the mistake of applying your own logic to other players, unless you know that is how they think from past experience.

Apologies just noticed the $80 max buy in in the OP. I would personally avoid these tables and focus on 100 BB tables. There is very little room for post flop play here and it dramatically reduces the edge for skilled players. Great for fish/recreational players, not so much for those wanting to show consistent profits. You want to give yourself the greatest possible opportunity to capitalise on any skill edge you may have.

Note however, at these stack size the value of hands significantly increase in strength. The value of TPTK etc become much greater.
 
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Thank you for your analysis. Yeah I guess I shouldn't have been so greedy because my hand wasn't good enough to slow play it. That was my main issue. A lot of turn cards could've been bad for me (8, 9, T, K or A) and I shouldn't have taken that risk when I was ahead. I was so short-stacked that I should've just check-shoved and doubled up my money.

The problem with the 100BB stack is that the lowest stake which allows those stacks is the $2/$4 with a $400 max buy-in. The problem with the 2/4 is that it's full of regs and solid players with very few fish. So that's not really an option for me. I've made large profits from $1/$2 tables in the past, but recently I've had a lot of bad losses (some bad beats, but some terrible decisions that I could've avoided), so I definitely want to improve my game before I move up in the stakes.
 
ConDeck

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I would definitely agree about not moving up before you both have the skill level to hold your own and the bankroll to comfortably play at these levels. Do they not have any 0.5/1 games near you at all? Do you play online at all or only live? Online play would definitely allow you to improve your game much faster along with your bankroll at the same. You can easily play a few thousand hands in a session, this could take months live even regularly playing, and experience is definitely the best teacher along with review and analysis.
 
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