$200 NLHE Full Ring: 200nl FR: I flat QQ on BTN

BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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$200 NL HE Full Ring: 200nl FR: I flat QQ on BTN

200nl deep with antes on FT.

UTG (18/5/2 over 1k hands) open limps. UTG+2 (18/10/11 over 170 hands) limps along. CO, a 16/6/2 nit over 2.5k hands iso-raises. I flat on the BTN for a bunch of reasons, including that i want SB, a 52/24/3 fish to come along. We end up 5way on the flop as everybody calls.

Is this fine pre and post-flop?

full tilt poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em $0.30 Ante - 9 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG+2: $216.40
MP1: $432.50
MP2: $420.20
CO: $200.00
Hero (BTN): $200.00
SB: $56.05
BB: $803.60
UTG: $436.20
UTG+1: $490.10

Pre Flop: ($5.70) Hero is BTN with Q :heart: Q :diamond:
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $2, 2 folds, CO raises to $15, Hero calls $15, SB calls $14, 1 fold, UTG calls $13, UTG+2 calls $13

Flop: ($79.70) 4 :heart: T :heart: 5 :diamond: (5 players)
4 checks, Hero bets $65, 2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $130, CO folds, Hero raises to $184.70 all in, UTG+2 calls $54.70
 
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boldnbet

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It looks like these players don't raise preflop much, so their preflop range is tight, QQ+, and AK. He min 3bet you on the flop basically he's committed and willing to call all in. I'd fold here. I put him on KK and AA or maybe QQ but not likely. The worse cards he can have here is AK of hearts, in that case, you're not much of a favorite either.
 
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Mamushi

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Hey Belgo,

Was this because you thought UTG2 was being spewy with his 11af?

Does getting the fish in the pot make up for the lost equity of playing QQ multi handed instead of heads up?

I just can't seem to imagine a range of hands that check raise us that we have positve equity against, unless I am misreading it because of the 11af.

Did you get lucky and he showed up with KhJh? :)
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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Looks fine to me. The turn can bring all sorts of ugly cards and it's just as well to get the money in now. A flop mincheckraise screams strength (normally) but there's still no way you can find a fold, I don't think, unless you know that he only does that with the nuts and never, say, a flushdraw. It's hard to know someone that well.
 
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Zybomb

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You're 100 BBs deep and you flatted pre to set this up... so now that your plan worked you're considering bailing? Yea his check might seem odd, but Im assuming if he bets you'd jam it, so here just keep with the plan and ship it. If you're beat you're beat
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Does getting the fish in the pot make up for the lost equity of playing QQ multi handed instead of heads up?

the CO raiser is kind of a nit, so if I 3bet preflop, i'm either taking the dead money right away or i'm 4bet by a range that crushes me.

Flatting QQ is semi standard here i think.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Looks fine to me. The turn can bring all sorts of ugly cards and it's just as well to get the money in now. A flop mincheckraise screams strength (normally) but there's still no way you can find a fold, I don't think, unless you know that he only does that with the nuts and never, say, a flushdraw. It's hard to know someone that well.

i've discussed this hand elsewhere too and people seemed to think there are few flush draws in a 18/10's overlimping range after i suggested that villain's range could be sets/45/flush draws (Ax and connectors), against which we have about 33% equity, so even if we bet as small as $50 we're priced in anyway with $135 left vs. 33% of a $450 pot. So bet/call is better than bet/fold.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.752% 33.75% 00.00% 7017 0.00 { QdQh }
Hand 1: 66.248% 66.25% 00.00% 13773 0.00 { TT, 55-44, Ah9h, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, QhJh, 9h8h, 8h7h, 7h6h, 54s }

Does that range sound reasonable to you?
 
F Paulsson

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His flop checkraise has to be a bluff/random spazz some of the time (although not necessarily his checkraise/call) and I'd add JJ to his total range (if TT is in there 100% of the time, then surely JJ is in there at least some of the time, no?) And now I'm nitpicking, but he can't have Ah4h.

The reason I think jamming is good is because I figured we'd have about 50% equity versus his calling range and what makes the jam profitable is that if this is a bluff even rarely, that little fold equity that we squeeze out makes up for it. With the range above, if you add JJ, our equity should jump pretty drastically. If he can't have JJ then I think this is a fold. The weighted most probable hands he can have are 44 and 55. Still, people spazz. Everyone spazzes. A nit with a 2% 3-bet over a very large sample 3-bet me with 64o yesterday, and I wasn't getting out of line and hadn't been at the table for very long. Don't dismiss the possibility of it being air just because it "shouldn't" be. And even the possibility of it being air is enough to make folding wrong.
 
ABorges

ABorges

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Yeah I think calling pre is good, but why bet so big on the flop? With such shallow stacks on a pot that big, doesn't betting like $50 or even a little less kinda give you more leverage to work with, as well as not making your hand look as strong and therefore allowing people to raise you more often with stuff like naked Ts?

I think getting it in is good, even if he probably shows up with 55/44 a lot. He's also gonna have a bunch of flush draws and with that AF I think he has a T or something along those lines enough times to more than make up for the times he has sets.
 
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