$200 NLHE Full Ring: 200NL: A few live hands TPTK and turned flush on paired board

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$200 NLHE Full Ring: 200NL: A few live hands TPTK and turned flush on paired board

I feel I played these hands correctly post flop but as I learn more about live I want to make sure I've got the right idea moving forward:

Hand 1:

Hero has AcKc pre flop on BB, checks around to button who makes it $15 to go, I call, everyone folds. Flop comes 3hKs5h. I bet $25, button immediately makes it $75 to go. At this spot he has about $500 so still behind him, I have about $350 or so still behind me. Button has been very aggressive in position throughout game and usually either has a good hand or has decent draws. What do you do?


Hand 2: Hero has AcKc again pre flop on BB. Checks around to me. Table has become very maniac filled, I make it $10 to go, UTG to act immediately calls, two other players call. Flop comes Js2c8c. I check, UTG bets like $15, I call. Turn comes Jc paired board now and my nut flush. I bet $40, UTG immediately makes it $80 leaving $2 behind for some reason. What do you do?
 
TimovieMan

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1. 3-bet preflop. As played, don't donk the flop. As played I call down (over-)aggro players, unless the board gets really bad.

2. Raise bigger preflop. As played, I bet the flop for value with my draw. As played, if heads-up, I re-raise to take his final 2$.
 
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1. 3b pf. Given reads all in may be best play.

2. Call and bet $2 on the river.. tee hee.. im super happy with my hand here. Jx/lower flushes.

cbet flop though, as played crai turn.
 
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1. 3-bet preflop. As played, don't donk the flop. As played I call down (over-)aggro players, unless the board gets really bad.

2. Raise bigger preflop. As played, I bet the flop for value with my draw. As played, if heads-up, I re-raise to take his final 2$.

On hand 1 I was concerned he was capable of having Kx suited hearts or K3 or K5. It's possible he has K with weak other kicker , a set is possible but unlikely. I guess I was afraid if I called and turn is a heart I'm stuck unless he checks and I shove semi bluff. Guy was making big pre flop raises with things like K5 and face/x a lot. I think if the board was less drawy I would have repopped him on flop. I struggle a bit with players who re-raise hard on their draws unless I too have some draw outs.

Hand 2 I should have raised bigger pre flop, hand outcome would likely have been same as it was a bit of a cooler.

1. 3b pf. Given reads all in may be best play.

2. Call and bet $2 on the river.. tee hee.. im super happy with my hand here. Jx/lower flushes.

cbet flop though, as played crai turn.

Hand 1, I think a 3bet pre could have worked I guess I could have repopped all in on his flop 3 re-raise and taken it down but given his maniac betting sometimes it was reasonable to suspect some crap like K5 or K3. I think he read me as having TPGK but also on a flush draw.

Hand 2, played exactly this on turn. I was thrilled with the hand but not the cooler.


SPOILER: Hand 1 I fold. Another laggy player who is friends with villian says he probably bluffed me and assumed I had AQ. It just didnt seem worth the risk deep to get it all in with TPTK and no flush or st8 outs.

Hand 2 cooler. I put the guy the rest of the way in on the turned nut flush which paired the board. He turns over 22 for the 2s full of Js. Obviously lots of times a stack that's down is showing up here with Jx, overpair, or weaker flush on the shove. He just happened to flop a hidden set. If he was deep I would have likely folded to an aggressive raise on the paired J. Another player commented that he was losing there all day everyday in my spot regardless of stack size, I disagreed that if the stacks were deep and the board pairs, against a raiser I can sometimes let go of the nut flush. I guess only thing in this case I would have done differently was raise my draw on his flop bet and get him all in before the turn.
 
TimovieMan

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On hand 1 I was concerned he was capable of having Kx suited hearts or K3 or K5. It's possible he has K with weak other kicker , a set is possible but unlikely. I guess I was afraid if I called and turn is a heart I'm stuck unless he checks and I shove semi bluff. Guy was making big pre flop raises with things like K5 and face/x a lot. I think if the board was less drawy I would have repopped him on flop. I struggle a bit with players who re-raise hard on their draws unless I too have some draw outs.
Reverse way of thinking about it. Re-raise them on wet boards and make them pay for their draws while ahead. Do so on a rag board, and you're only getting folds.
I said "don't donk as played", I didn't say "check/call". I'd have 3-bet here.
But I'd have also done so preflop and then just c-bet the flop.

Hand 1, I think a 3bet pre could have worked I guess I could have repopped all in on his flop 3 re-raise and taken it down but given his maniac betting sometimes it was reasonable to suspect some crap like K5 or K3. I think he read me as having TPGK but also on a flush draw.
You want them to call when you're ahead and they're drawing. They'll miss more than they'll hit. You win.

Hand 2, played exactly this on turn. I was thrilled with the hand but not the cooler.
Sometimes they have it.

Now look at how much value he lost by playing shortstacked. ;)
 
Trabendo_daze

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Hand 1 we need to 3bet and then cbet this flop. Donking is weird but might be okay if you have a very specific plan in mind. Much more standard to check-call as played. Much like Tim said.

Hand 2 we have to bet this flop and literally never fold to any action. We have overcards and the nut flush draw which is incredibly strong. Capitalize on fold equity and plan on barreling basically any turn.
 
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Reverse way of thinking about it. Re-raise them on wet boards and make them pay for their draws while ahead. Do so on a rag board, and you're only getting folds.
I said "don't donk as played", I didn't say "check/call". I'd have 3-bet here.
But I'd have also done so preflop and then just c-bet the flop.

You want them to call when you're ahead and they're drawing. They'll miss more than they'll hit. You win.

Sometimes they have it.

Now look at how much value he lost by playing shortstacked. ;)

On the first hand I did c bet the flop and he came back with the 3x 3 bet. Would you have 4 bet him?

And yeah that's true on second hand. He was short due to some losses early in session, he didnt intentionally buy in short. But yeah he joked that he wished he'd had more behind him, but i would have possibly laid down the flush if he was deep and shoving that turned paired board after showing early aggression.
 
TimovieMan

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On the first hand I did c bet the flop and he came back with the 3x 3 bet. Would you have 4 bet him?
You didn't have the initiative since you just called his preflop raise. That makes your flop bet a donk, not a c-bet. ;)

As played, no I wouldn't have 4-bet him. But I wouldn't have donked and would've probably check/raised his c-bet in that case.
But I would always have 3-bet preflop, which means I wouldn't be in this spot...
 
Trabendo_daze

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The first spot is hard to analyze since you went about it in such a non-standard way. If you call you're OOP in an SPR=1 pot with a vulnerable hand. If you shove, you're probably only getting called by draws and things that have you crushed. It's not a fun spot, but one that can be easily avoided by you just checking, or by you 3-betting and c-betting the flop.

If you 3-bet then c-bet and you get raised, you can probably fold much more happily.
 
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You didn't have the initiative since you just called his preflop raise. That makes your flop bet a donk, not a c-bet. ;)

As played, no I wouldn't have 4-bet him. But I wouldn't have donked and would've probably check/raised his c-bet in that case.
But I would always have 3-bet preflop, which means I wouldn't be in this spot...

If you 3 bet pre flop and he comes over the top and you have AKs , you're folding correct?

The first spot is hard to analyze since you went about it in such a non-standard way. If you call you're OOP in an SPR=1 pot with a vulnerable hand. If you shove, you're probably only getting called by draws and things that have you crushed. It's not a fun spot, but one that can be easily avoided by you just checking, or by you 3-betting and c-betting the flop.

If you 3-bet then c-bet and you get raised, you can probably fold much more happily.

So you'd say first to act here I should have checked back the flop, villain bets, then re-raise him but fold if he fires back at me?
 
TimovieMan

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If you 3 bet pre flop and he comes over the top and you have AKs , you're folding correct?
Only if he's an absolute nit who only 4-bets KK+.
If he 4-bets QQ+/AK, then we still have 42% equity. With the dead money in the pot, that most likely will make a call profitable.
We're in even better shape if he's capable of 4-bet bluffing hands like A2s-A5s. Then we have 52% equity.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Probably not folding AKs pre, but there are situations where I would
 
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Situation 1.
I wouldn't lead, I'd check. Since he's aggressive, he'll bet for you. I would let him continue to barrell off with worse hands or bluffs in this spot. Occasionally, you'll get all three streets of value, but with an aggressive player, you're almost assured two streets. If you're leading, you'll often times fold out worse hands and get called by better hands, get raised with better hands and occasionally bluff raised with worst hands, which puts you in a really bad spot.
I'd check/call to the agressive player. Think this the best way maximize value for you hand and minimize losses when you are occasionally beat.

Situation 2
This is a call 100% of the time- Nut flush and $40 to call for a $175 pot-- this is never a fold just due to the numbers. Sure he'll show up with a fullhouse some of the time, but he could also be doing this with any flush, trip Jacks or even overpairs. But regardless, this is a call 100% of the time.
 
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