$200 NLHE Full Ring: $200 NLHE : Was I right or wrong?

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nittany182

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Sitting in SB on a 1/3 NLHE game...

A few calls and a raise (maybe $20-25 in the pot after a $12 raise) I hold Js9s...

I call for $11 more, a couple folds and another call...

Board hits 8J8-rainbow...

I bet $15, a fold, and a call... Heads up...

Checked to me, I bet another $15, and a call...

Turn, 10...

Checked to me, I bet $20 (2-pair with a straight draw), another call...

River, a third 8 (I hit a boat 888JJ), checked again and bet $40...

Table talk about what if he raises, blah blah blah... Felt like 5 minutes later he finally raises to $80...

I shove my last $51 for $40+$11...

He talks to himself again about thinking he has to make the call... I think to myself that I HATE SLOW PLAY!!!

He finally calls...

I show my J9 for the boat...

He talks AGAIN, about thinking he has me beat... Good God man show the cards already...

He then turns a 8d6d, QUADS...


Was I right in my betting?

Was I wrong to get P'd in the way he handled the hand? (Slow play and slow roll)
 
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MattJM68

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My thoughts ( feel free to disagree):

I think it's a loose call preflop, I'd look to fold or 3 bet this hand, not really a hand you want to play OOP, although you can definitely justify a call, especially when players are getting there with 68.

I really like your sizing on the flop, dry board so low sizing, no issues.

The turn brings a possible/unlikely straight, so I'd maybe size up a bit here, 30/40. But nothing too bad.

Rivers a tough spot, what worse hands check call you twice and then check the river? 77?99?10s? Maybe 910. And do these call 3 streets? I honestly doubt it so would check the river. Really depends on how sticky your opponent is. Plus, you really look like you have a Jack.
Also if you come across as an aggressive player, he may check his 8s and overpairs to induce another bet.

I also think he is almpst never bluffing when he min raises the river so I don't like the shove, and you are definitely never getting called by worse when you do. Therefore I think you have to sigh and chuck in the 40 and hope you are splitting with another Jack.

Overall, I think you played the flop and turn fine. However I think it's -Ev if you're always calling suited one gappers in the SB for 4BB, and the river play, although tricky, seems like you could have saved at least a little bit of what was left.

Nice hand, let me know what your thoughts were throughout the hand so I can understand your decisions better.

And never feel bad for get p'd at a slowroller.
 
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nittany182

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..
 
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nittany182

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My thoughts ( feel free to disagree):

I think it's a loose call preflop, I'd look to fold or 3 bet this hand, not really a hand you want to play OOP, although you can definitely justify a call, especially when players are getting there with 68.

I really like your sizing on the flop, dry board so low sizing, no issues.

The turn brings a possible/unlikely straight, so I'd maybe size up a bit here, 30/40. But nothing too bad.

Rivers a tough spot, what worse hands check call you twice and then check the river? 77?99?10s? Maybe 910. And do these call 3 streets? I honestly doubt it so would check the river. Really depends on how sticky your opponent is. Plus, you really look like you have a Jack.
Also if you come across as an aggressive player, he may check his 8s and overpairs to induce another bet.

I also think he is almpst never bluffing when he min raises the river so I don't like the shove, and you are definitely never getting called by worse when you do. Therefore I think you have to sigh and chuck in the 40 and hope you are splitting with another Jack.

Overall, I think you played the flop and turn fine. However I think it's -Ev if you're always calling suited one gappers in the SB for 4BB, and the river play, although tricky, seems like you could have saved at least a little bit of what was left.

Nice hand, let me know what your thoughts were throughout the hand so I can understand your decisions better.

And never feel bad for get p'd at a slowroller.
A quick compilation of thoughts and events over a 2-hour span, and the hand in general.

Player was good for pot size bets, and have seen him do it with any pair, Ax, and all the way to unsuited connectors from any position. He was in 7/10 hands and I was in 4/10 hands maybe. My range for the night was a little out there, playing the suited gapper all the way up to AA if the pot/bet was right. 2:1 I think when I called preflop, not horrible but not great either.

I did play the hand oop, and should have either raised or folded because "they were suited gappers" can get you into trouble.

His chatter was leading me to think he had something or a tight draw, but nothing overly strong. I was thinking AT AK or KT or possibly a pair. And up until the river he did have a weak flush draw and the set of 8s.

The river raise did send a flag, but I have seen him min raise just to get people out of a pot.

And the last $11 on top on the river... Yeah, I could have saved the gas money.

--- I'll add that half the night we were playing short with 5/6 players and the average pot was maybe $15-20.
 
eidikos

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hi!
i think you had to control the pot and not to play such a big one
besides i think you had to just call the river.there is not +ev in shoving.what worst hand will pay you there..?
slow play is a very bad attitude
 
Beanfacekilla

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Sitting in SB on a 1/3 NLHE game...

A few calls and a raise (maybe $20-25 in the pot after a $12 raise) I hold Js9s...

I call for $11 more, a couple folds and another call...

Board hits 8J8-rainbow...

I bet $15, a fold, and a call... Heads up...

Checked to me, I bet another $15, and a call...

Turn, 10...

Checked to me, I bet $20 (2-pair with a straight draw), another call...

River, a third 8 (I hit a boat 888JJ), checked again and bet $40...

Table talk about what if he raises, blah blah blah... Felt like 5 minutes later he finally raises to $80...

I shove my last $51 for $40+$11...

He talks to himself again about thinking he has to make the call... I think to myself that I HATE SLOW PLAY!!!

He finally calls...

I show my J9 for the boat...

He talks AGAIN, about thinking he has me beat... Good God man show the cards already...

He then turns a 8d6d, QUADS...


Was I right in my betting?

Was I wrong to get P'd in the way he handled the hand? (Slow play and slow roll)


First off, your details are sketchy dude. How did you bet the flop twice?

How is anyone checking to you if you are the SB?


I'm going to give it to you straight man. You played the entire hand really badly.


#1. Just from your sketchy details and lol line post flop, I can tell you don't have the post flop skills to even play a hand like this OOP. You may not realize this, but we as poker players need to be aware of our own skill level, and be humble.

#2. Given the above statement, fold pre. The better player you are, the more hands you can play. You are in the absolute worst position post flop, and you are playing passive. Fold pre dude. Just make the game easier on yourself and don't play this spec of a hand in SB. With a few limpers, and you cold calling here you may start a call train, and you will be playing a bigger pot, with more players.

#3. As played (there shouldn't be as played, you should fold pre to avoid this exact spot, out of position), why are you leading this flop? What are you trying to accomplish? What better hands fold, and what worse hands call? You have no idea where you're at, and you keep betting. This is just a lack of thought, lack of hand reading, lack of fundamentals. You literally have no clue what you are trying to accomplish here. You even note the fact you have a straight draw on the turn, which would put a 4 straight and trips on the board on the river. Who's paying you off with worse there? Think about what you're saying here.

#4. So you bet twice, get to the river. We are in no man's land here. Board is 8-8-J-10-8. What calls that you beat on this river? Please tell me what you expect this guy to call with that your hand actually beats? What better hand folds? So why are you still betting?

#5. You bet river, and he min raises you. What more evidence do you need that your hand is a loser? If he showed you an over pair or an 8x, would you fold then? That's what he's gonna have here. You decide to click it back and jam here, for whatever reason. Once again, what are we getting value from? What do we beat? What is we trying to accomplish in this hand, throughout? Are you hoping to chop?



You are looking at the value of your hand all wrong man. You feel like you have a boat, and that's a strong hand. I knew the moment you donked the flop 8-8-J, even before seeing hand play out, that you are just diving into the cage here.

There is literally zero hands you are beating here on the river, the way you got here. You took such a terrible line, that you have committed yourself to the pot, and you should clearly know you don't have a winner here, if you even thought about what your opponent is holding.



I don't mean to be blunt man, and I hope I don't sound rude. That's not my intention. My intention is to help you. I wish someone had knocked some sense into me when I was a fish for years at live poker. I have been where you are man. I learned. It took a while. It took some people to help me get better.



Fold pre. Play better cards, and avoid playing out of position, I can't stress that enough. You need to learn how to hand read man. Search you tube for "poker hand reading." Read books on strategy. Study. Try and learn. Play really tight until then. Premium hands only, and never out of position without tip top of your range. This should keep you out of trouble while you learn.
 
Beanfacekilla

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A quick compilation of thoughts and events over a 2-hour span, and the hand in general.

Player was good for pot size bets, and have seen him do it with any pair, Ax, and all the way to unsuited connectors from any position. He was in 7/10 hands and I was in 4/10 hands maybe. My range for the night was a little out there, playing the suited gapper all the way up to AA if the pot/bet was right. 2:1 I think when I called preflop, not horrible but not great either.

I did play the hand oop, and should have either raised or folded because "they were suited gappers" can get you into trouble.

His chatter was leading me to think he had something or a tight draw, but nothing overly strong. I was thinking AT AK or KT or possibly a pair. And up until the river he did have a weak flush draw and the set of 8s.

The river raise did send a flag, but I have seen him min raise just to get people out of a pot.

And the last $11 on top on the river... Yeah, I could have saved the gas money.

--- I'll add that half the night we were playing short with 5/6 players and the average pot was maybe $15-20.


Look at bolded section above..... Did you actually see the hand? Did you actually SEE PROOF? Was the min raise on the river after calling twice?

I play live 1/2 30-40 hours a week, every week. People don't min raise rivers like this with air dude. There is no universe your hand is ahead as played on this river.
 
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