$200 NLHE Full Ring: $200 NLHE Full Ring:1/3 NLHE Ring Live: Middle pair on dry board vs. Aggro opponent

A

Aspiring

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Total posts
1
Chips
0
$200 NLHE Full Ring: $200 NLHE Full Ring:1/3 NLHE Ring Live: Middle pair on dry board vs. Aggro opponent

Note: I'm a poker beginner and I've only just started to play live games. Gonna look into playing online later on but that's irrelevant. Also this is my first time posting on any poker forum, so sorry if the format is incorrect or something. But please help me with this dilemma :)

Went to play at my local casino last night, 1/3 NLHE. Max buy-in is 100BB, $300.

Player B sits on my left, tight aggressive and strong player, bluffs at the right pots and gets paid off when he actually has something. This hand came 2-3 hours into the session, so I had a pretty good grasp of his play style.

In this hand I'm UTG+1. I start the hand with around $400, Player B with $700. UTG folds, I look down at 8s 8c. Decide to limp for $3. Player B raises to $18. Folds around to button, who raises all in for $41. SB and BB fold, back to me. I call $41, as does Player B.

Flop: 4h 2d Qs

I check. Player B bets $45.

Flop isn't bad for my pocket 8s, and Player B fires c-bets all the time when he misses the flop. I call $45.

Turn: 6c

I check again. Player B bets $85.

Damn. Now I have to make a decision. There are no real feasible draws on the board, so he either has me or he is airballing me. I know his pre-flop raising range isn't the tightest, so he could be ranging from Q10s-AA. I didn't want to flat call because only the last 2 8s in the deck would make it easy on me, so I was debating shoving all in or folding. My gut was telling me 100% that he was bluffing me, but my mind said that it wasn't worth the risk of getting felted, especially at a weak 1/3 NL live table. After a few minutes of inner debate, I fold.

River: 8d (-_______-)

Button shows A10o, Player B shows Ac Kc, wins it all. :|

BLahhhhh! I ended the session up about $150, but this hand bothered me for the rest of the night. Were there any flaws in my reasoning or any play I should've made at the time, and the reasoning behind that?
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
if you think he is bluffing, shoving makes very little sense, if his range is polarised (strong hands or nothing) bluff catching is much more effective that folding out all his bluffs and being crushed by his value
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Total posts
2,683
Chips
0
Raise pre, dont open limp. Fold to 3 bet, you're effectively set mining 3 way with the original raiser still to act. You're not getting the odds to setmine, plus we're oop, so the call is really bad.

As played I fold the flop, Player B is betting into a dead pot so I doubt we're ahead here. Plus you're rarely going to see good turn and river cards so you'll struggle to get to showdown.

Also dont post your results, it affects analysis
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
Raise pre, dont open limp. Fold to 3 bet, you're effectively set mining 3 way with the original raiser still to act. You're not getting the odds to setmine, plus we're oop, so the call is really bad.

As played I fold the flop, Player B is betting into a dead pot so I doubt we're ahead here. Plus you're rarely going to see good turn and river cards so you'll struggle to get to showdown.

this aswell
 
The Messiah

The Messiah

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Total posts
888
Chips
0
shove pre, over the all in.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
Lead flop? I can't believe nobody has said this. As played my line here would definitely Be check calling 2 streets with the intention to fold to a river barrel (assuming we don't Bink the 8)

The combos of hands that player B can have that call a flop bet are minimal. If you aren't comfy hero calling the. Yeah you should be raising pre
 
The Messiah

The Messiah

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Total posts
888
Chips
0
Lead flop? I can't believe nobody has said this. As played my line here would definitely Be check calling 2 streets with the intention to fold to a river barrel (assuming we don't Bink the 8)

The combos of hands that player B can have that call a flop bet are minimal. If you aren't comfy hero calling the. Yeah you should be raising pre

And fold out all better, what?
OP said he was an agg that c-bets/t-bets a lot. The board is dry as can be.
Were losing soooo much value by donking, and if villain is as agg as he is, hes going to min raise that board as hero donking here is such a merged range of a pp thats afraid of an overpair.If were calling this flop we have to call pretty much any turn card bar A/K.
If hes good enough to fire a 3rd barrel bluff then hes entitled to the pot imo,but not many are..

I cant believe you said lead flop, seriously man..
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Total posts
2,994
Chips
0
messiah's right, really right.

and youregoodmate, I think he's betting the flop to increase his equity since its better against one hand than two opponents.. + we limp called so we should never really have a hand on that flop execpt weak PP's, but since he's aggro we still need to c/c the flop and probably decent turns..

but this has all been said already, I have nothing else to contribute tbh.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
And fold out all better, what?
OP said he was an agg that c-bets/t-bets a lot. The board is dry as can be.
Were losing soooo much value by donking, and if villain is as agg as he is, hes going to min raise that board as hero donking here is such a merged range of a pp thats afraid of an overpair.If were calling this flop we have to call pretty much any turn card bar A/K.
If hes good enough to fire a 3rd barrel bluff then hes entitled to the pot imo,but not many are..

I cant believe you said lead flop, seriously man..

i also said that its not ideal or my line. i said i c/c 2 streets and c/f river (ie like you said, if he wants to triple barrel bluff me nh nh he can have it)

i mean, 88 there is the second nuts imo. both of our thinking as to handle this hand is the same.

'lead flop' was purely to help OP not lose pots bc he obv isnt comfortable making really standard calls. c/c, c/c, c/f > donking > c/c, c/f imo

also, if villain is decent and aggro as suggested, we should be c/c'ing an A on the turn too since its such an obv barrel card
 
Last edited:
The Messiah

The Messiah

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Total posts
888
Chips
0
i also said that its not ideal or my line. i said i c/c 2 streets and c/f river (ie like you said, if he wants to triple barrel bluff me nh nh he can have it)

i mean, 88 there is the second nuts imo. both of our thinking as to handle this hand is the same.

'lead flop' was purely to help OP not lose pots bc he obv isnt comfortable making really standard calls. c/c, c/c, c/f > donking > c/c, c/f imo

also, if villain is decent and aggro as suggested, we should be c/c'ing an A on the turn too since its such an obv barrel card

lol wut..

You said," Lead flop, cant believe nobody has said this", sorry for taking you up on this as being your line.lol:confused: and again mention "The combos of hands that player B can have that call a flop bet are minimal", thus, recommending donking the flop again, sorry choop but youve lost me on this one!!!

Yes, obv, but we should be calling the turn fewer % of the time now as he can now rep a stronger hand, it obv makes no difference against our hand but he will now be barreling the river a lot more than if a blank hit as he might feel he can take hero off a Q.

So actually we should be folding a lot more than calling the turn when a A/K hits, just because its a barreling card doesnt mean we call.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
my bad lol, i totally see the confusion. need to stop posting after i finish sessions at like 4am lol.

interesting what you say about villains actions OTR after we call the A on the turn though.... i think completely differently. i find that if we call an A on the turn, that villain will play his hand totally face up OTR- ie check back everything weaker than top2 or a big ace hand that he was airballing flop with. although this is most definitely something ive learned from being a mass multitabling micro grinder.

interesting stuff
 
The Messiah

The Messiah

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Total posts
888
Chips
0
my bad lol, i totally see the confusion. need to stop posting after i finish sessions at like 4am lol.

interesting what you say about villains actions OTR after we call the A on the turn though.... i think completely differently. i find that if we call an A on the turn, that villain will play his hand totally face up OTR- ie check back everything weaker than top2 or a big ace hand that he was airballing flop with. although this is most definitely something ive learned from being a mass multitabling micro grinder.

interesting stuff

No bothers, ive done my fair share of nooby posts in the past by being wrecked, so alls good:p

Well im barreling a lot more on the river when an A hits turn, was prob applying my line to villain who prob would give up on river, but he really shouldnt be as he has so much more FE.Like a 50% pot bet is good, no need for anything more than that, does the same job..
 
Organize a Home Poker Game
Top