$200 NLHE Full Ring: $200 NL Full Ring: K-Qo, BTN, against unknowns. New to table.

Beanfacekilla

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$200 NLHE Full Ring: $200 NL Full Ring: K-Qo, BTN, against unknowns. New to table.

This may seem pretty standard, but I would like to discuss it, none the less.

1. BTN ($197) K-Qo. 3 limpers, we raise to $16, 4 callers (1 blind, and all limpers). Only piece of relevant information that made me think was this: when action was on UTG after my raise, he hesitated. I noticed it, and thought it was a little wierd.

Flop Q-8-3 two diamonds (5w, $80ish). Checks to me, I bet $45, 1c (UTG limper, 40ish white dude, no reads, no history, covers hero).

Turn 7h. ($170ish, minus $7 for rake and BBJ) Dude checks. Real time, I calculate pot at 150-160. I put him on inferior Q-x or FD. I have about $135, so I shove.


I welcome any/all comments here. I just wanted to dicuss the hand.
 
TimovieMan

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Was the Q on the board the Qd or not? Because it almost feels like he's playing QdJd.
I agree with your assessment that his most likely holding is a flush draw or a weaker Q.

We can't fully discount 33 or AQ, but I think you made the most +EV move here.

Nh, imo.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Was the Q on the board the Qd or not? Because it almost feels like he's playing QdJd.
I agree with your assessment that his most likely holding is a flush draw or a weaker Q.

We can't fully discount 33 or AQ, but I think you made the most +EV move here.

Nh, imo.

It was Qd on board. No possibility of Qd-Xd. I should have noted that.
 
TimovieMan

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Well played.
UTG pause might have been him thinking of 3 betting flop with AQ.
He paused preflop.

Increased likelihood of AA/KK? Or just him not wanting to pay more to see a flop with a low pocket pair / suited connector?
 
Beanfacekilla

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He paused preflop.

Increased likelihood of AA/KK? Or just him not wanting to pay more to see a flop with a low pocket pair / suited connector?


It was enough for me to notice, but V is totally unknown to me at this point. I noticed it, and that's about all. However, it could be a number of things that made him hesitate. Trying to figure that out preflop is pure, wild speculation. I feel we have to play hand based on information we have.

Even if we think about it, what do we do? Check turn given our reads? I think that would be incorrect. Live players make shitty limp/calls all the time. Given no history, no reads, I usually assume players are weak, and too loose (because most of them are, and they make titanic errors preflop and postflop).
 
Cherubael

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Seems like a sound play to me.

As for the pause, as you say it could mean anything - right through being hesitant with lower cards or figuring out how to play e.g. AA/KK, to trying to deliberately throw you off or just hesitantly counting chips... :/ as it isn't actually helpful information in any way I'd just dismiss it.
 
IPlay

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WP and I would just remember the hand + hesitation for potential future hands against villain. I don't think it can help you here, he was most likely wondering if it was worth calling pre?
 
Trabendo_daze

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Totally standard he can call with worse Qx and draws
 
Beanfacekilla

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Seems like a sound play to me.

As for the pause, as you say it could mean anything - right through being hesitant with lower cards or figuring out how to play e.g. AA/KK, to trying to deliberately throw you off or just hesitantly counting chips... :/ as it isn't actually helpful information in any way I'd just dismiss it.

WP and I would just remember the hand + hesitation for potential future hands against villain. I don't think it can help you here, he was most likely wondering if it was worth calling pre?

Totally standard he can call with worse Qx and draws



Thanks guys. I'll try to remember if I ever see him again. I can't even remember what he looks like anymore though.

Villain held Ah-Ad.

He asked me when I shipped the turn "Do you have a set?"

I said nothing. I knew as soon as he asked me that, our hand is no good.

So he limped UTG with AA, and willingly took a multiway flop with them. That was the hesitation, that is why. I don't know if he's brilliant, or inexperienced. I think he was just one of those people who think AA is invincible, but maybe I'm diluding myself.

Considering the fact that he was gone after I took a 10 minute walk (right after hand), I think he hit and run, and he's not a regular/grinder.

Until he asked me if I had a set, I thought I had the best hand. Even when he asked me that, I thought he has Q-7 or Q-8.

Please don't discuss results, if anyone else wants to post feedback, thanks.
 
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I think you played the hand fine. And with no reads on the guy, hard to put him on any hand really. Hard to say if this was played well or not. If the guy is loose, I say you played it optimally. If the guy was tight and coming along the whole way, you maybe were value owning yourself. An evaluation of the hand is dependent on the type of player you were in the hand with.
 
Beanfacekilla

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I think you played the hand fine. And with no reads on the guy, hard to put him on any hand really. Hard to say if this was played well or not. If the guy is loose, I say you played it optimally. If the guy was tight and coming along the whole way, you maybe were value owning yourself. An evaluation of the hand is dependent on the type of player you were in the hand with.


Yeah, no reads... I've never seen the dude before.


I think it was fine. I was wondering if I should have put more thought into the hesitation preflop. I thought about it, wondered if he had a big hand. But flop was pretty good for me. I think it plays itself really.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Even if you put something into the hesitation preflop I think you're going to make more incorrect decisions based on it than correct ones. I think live reads like that are only reliable if you see them a couple times
 
Beanfacekilla

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Even if you put something into the hesitation preflop I think you're going to make more incorrect decisions based on it than correct ones. I think live reads like that are only reliable if you see them a couple times


Yeah I agree 100%. I think the way I played it is fine. But I actually thought in real time "is this dude about to Limp r/r me?" But then he just called, and I was like "alright then, here we go".
 
Aces2w1n

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We definetly leaning towards more of a showdown strategy with this hand.

Once you shove turn your only getting called when beat and he folds everything else. I think we definetly need to rethink shoving, and even checking the flop isn't a bad idea for some pot control.

Think of the hands we want to get paid from... When we apply pressure what stays and what goes? And you'll see that only hands that beat us stay.
 
Beanfacekilla

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We definetly leaning towards more of a showdown strategy with this hand.

Once you shove turn your only getting called when beat and he folds everything else. I think we definetly need to rethink shoving, and even checking the flop isn't a bad idea for some pot control.

Think of the hands we want to get paid from... When we apply pressure what stays and what goes? And you'll see that only hands that beat us stay.



No. We get called by worse Q hands and FDs all the time in live poker. The guy limp/called UTG. There are many hands we can get value from. Unknowns will stack off with TPNK. I have made this same play many times before, in similar spots. Live players are in general are calling stations. I've been called in spots like this with gutterballs. They will say things like "I just knew it was coming!", if they hit, and they are serious.


I think it's pretty standard. Reason I posted it was because it was a strange hand IMO.
 
Mr Sandbag

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I'd bet a little more on the flop to set up an easier turn jam but line is the same anyway.
 
Beanfacekilla

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I'd bet a little more on the flop to set up an easier turn jam but line is the same anyway.



I was going for about 1/2 pot, and my plan was to clamp it down on the turn (on non-nasty turn cards). I wanted to take it easy, and scan for land-mines.

How much would you bet OTF?
 
Mr Sandbag

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$55-65. For sure there are landmines, but that's only a part of their ranges when they call. No reason to check with a value hand on a blank turn because someone may have a set or may have limped KK+. Two pair+ hands are going to raise flop some of the time anyway, so you can't even include 100% of those combos when someone flats flop bet.
 
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