Originally Posted by quick
I agree with you on all your points here. I'm not folding 1010 on this spot I don't think. In terms of fist pumping 1010 all in pre with everything as you said that's so opponent specific you'd have to be soul reading that player.
I agree my line was weird and I chalk it up to being new to the live casino setting. In context of this specific hand, both villain and I read each other as at least somewhat competent players (she read me as patient and tentative and I read her as not quite LAG but aggressive enough to pull a wild bluff out). I have no idea why she put out a small "value bluff raise" on river raising my small actual value bet , she claimed it was a "rare bluff and should've known you were patiently waiting" I wish she had stayed and played more after that because looking back she was itching to make moves and play, not fold all night like I was, I don't know if she choked and wasn't sure where she was at or if she read me like a book and was assuming I'd 3 bet her on her raise giving her an easy fold if she's reading my hand or an easy shove if she wants to rep quads or higher FH or has it. I was overthinking for sure, my line of thought was she was value betting J10 or JJ (silly in hindsight I think) and read me for 1010 or J7 or J2 on river and thought if I re-raised her on river again she'd shove and what then? In reality you're right, it was a weird line.
As others said i should have found a way to get stacks in on flop or turn at the latest but I got caught up in "whose tricking who" in this situation. On one hand I didn't want to scare her off the hand when I hit so big on flop (and I was seen that night as pretty tight and generally had the goods when I had to show down) but on other hand I dodged a bullet with how poorly I played the turn and lost value on river by not putting her stack on the line.
I appreciated your feedback here, it's definitely good to get perspective. At first I was ok with my play (and I did win the hand and the pot) but it bothered me that I was too tentative in spots where 99% of the time I'm ahead by a mile.
I need to keep perspective that this is live $1/2 not online too. We watched a guy at the table shove all in on river on a possible FH board and possible open ended st8 board for at least 300BB , get called by the higher straight and have the dealer tell him "i'm sorry sir, what straight were you announcing, you have no hand" So that should have been a huge red flag to me that fancy plays and big hand traps aren't common at $1/2 and I over estimated the villains skill in Hand 2 haha. The only way I was losing Hand 2 was if I folded or a rare beat. Obviously in hindsight whenever you pop a FH on flop generally you're facing the rare possibility of seeing someone hit quads but the chances are so small long term I need to be getting stacks in.
Yo... for live play, I kinda live by one simple rule.
Fast play little part of full house, like 10-10 on J-J-10 for example, or 7-7 on A-A-7.
The reason is you are blocking the 10, so V doesn't have 10x on J-J-10, and if you get action, it's either an overpair, or trips (usually, but live villains do stupid shit like chase gutters and FDs too on paired boards). So we swing for the fence to get max value from trips. If they fold overpair, at least we tried. We are pretty much going for offensive overbets (as much as they will call). Obviously, this is villain dependant. We can't prison rape smart villains with offensive overbets, they will know better.
For example: in 2013 or 2014, I was on a table full of weak-passive scared-ish money players. At some point, I realized I need to switch gears to full on loose aggro maniac style.
So, I beat this table up for about an hour. Show bluffs, put everyone on tilt. Then, I switch gears and play tight, straight forward poker. I know these people are about to implode. The tension is so high at the table, you can literally feel it.
This hand occurs, an example of a boat like the one you had....
I have 4-4 in MP. UTG raises to $10. I call to set-mine, and others call. UTG has been a frequent flyer with Beanfacekilla airlines. He has been trying so hard to flop something vs us. He just kept missing, and we would just bully this dude out of every pot he entered with us. So, dude has had enough.... he is ready to be stacked. We have set the stage.
So here we go.
We see 5w flop of K-K-4. UTG checks. I found this odd, because I know this guy had a hand from the moment he raised preflop. So, what do we do? Pot it. $50.
Folds back to UTG preflop raiser. He calls. Now, I know this guy has Kx. He thinks he's trapping me. Moo-aaa-ha-ha. ...
So I assign him K-A through K-J. So we can really whack this dude here.
Turn is a 6. Dude checks. The is $150 in the pot. He has about $350. We cover him.
I move in for an offensive overbet. More than twice the pot.
This guy tanks for about 10 or 15 seconds, if I recall correctly. He calls.
I think to myself "NO PAINT CARDS, NO PAINT CARDS, NO ACE".
River 7. Board K-K-4-6-7. We show 4-4. Dealer announces "full house, 4's full".
Dude looks like he's about to puke, and tables K-Jo. He put around $400 into this pot, a pot that we scoop.
In reality, in what alternate universe is K-J the best hand, on that board, facing that much aggression? In his universe I guess.
Point being, when you flop J-J-10 with pocket 10's, and your opponent has Jx, you can swing for the fence bro. They will almost never lay that shit down. They are prime for the picking. I have stacked people for well over 200 BB in spots like these.
Don't squander a good spot like this (at live poker).
However, you will get unlucky sometimes. There will be coolers. Beware, but don't play scared.
As for bigger boats, like A-A on A-7-7, slowplay is fine. But not too slow. You gotta bet turn. Gotta. Hopefully someone has 7x, and they raise you, you just sandbag and flat. Then, hit them hard on the river.
Catching my drift?
All this advice is geared towards live $1/$2 NLHE. Live poker. Online is different.