$200 NLHE Full Ring: $1/$3 NL Hold'em huge live hand

Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

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Hi all, this hand is haunting me and I'm pretty sure I botched the shit out of it. I would like some of your thoughts.

Game is $1/$3 where the money has been flying around a little bit. I was sitting at the table for about 2.5 hours when this hand comes up. I had been playing pretty tight for a while but loosened up a bit and ran a few bluffs which allowed me to get more value from other hands. I think my image at this point was tight-ish with the ability to bluff. I have about $550 in front.

Players: SB (~$750) is a weird player who plays very loose-passive preflop. He's raised pf half a dozen times and has never 3bet.

MP1 (~$150) is a tight player who has rarely gone to showdown, but I'm pretty sure he would only put money in with a good piece of the board. He's commented a few times revealing his tight nature.

CO (~$900) I s a complete wildcard. He has called preflop raises with 74s and has gone to showdown calling 3 barrels with middle pair. He seemed to be very LAGgy.

Hero has 10d10h in UTG+2 and there are folds to him. Hero raises to $15
MP1 calls
Folds to CO who calls.
BTN calls.
SB raises to $40.

At this point I'm literally putting SB on JJ+ since this is his first 3bet and he has been very passive pf. I figure that if I call so will MP1 and CO and I will have odds to setmine with huge effective stacks.

Hero calls $40
MP1 calls $40
CO calls $40
BTN folds.

Flop (~$140) 9h 4c 3d
SB checks
Hero bets $95
MP1 insta calls for less ($83)
CO thinks for a bit and says "hm, why not?" and calls $95
SB calls $95

Turn (~$500 in the main, ~$36 in the side) Kh
SB checks
Hero checks
CO smiles and bets $175
SB folds
Hero tanks and folds


I think I butcher this I 1. Call SB's 3bet pf, but more when 2. I don't shove over CO. For some reason I assigned CO such a small range of Kx because I figured he had two overcards, because what else calls a 3bet preflop and doesn't smash that flop right? I think in reality I should've realized his previous play and understood that these people call preflop raises with ATC, and he probably would've called a shove. How bad is this turn fold?
 
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Deville

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#1 - Your math is off about the flop pot size. ($176).
#2 - Why did you check the turn? As played, the Kh is usually a brick there (a blank card). With about $550 in the middle, $300-ish is the right bet size, but you only have $410-ish left, so the correct move is a shove on the turn. You rep so strong shoving the turn after 3 flop callers (A/K getting lucky on the turn or 9/9, etc...) that even Q/Q will fold often enough there, and it's extremely rare the SB has that good a hand anyway after gettimg to the turn that way.
#3 - If someone floated flop light & spiked a mirace King on the turn, c'est la vie, that's poker. It's still the right play, long-run. If you were already beat on the flop by one of the two remaining players, then you need to sharpen up your strength-reads about their flop smooth calls. And if the short-stack on the flop has you beat, who cares? He can't win anything more from you anyway.
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

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#1. whoops you're right
#2. You're right about Kh being a brick. And I think you're absolutely right about all of your reasoning. The only question I have is, if we think I'm ahead on the turn, should we maybe check-raise all-in, looking for CO to make some kind of bluff? Or is it more profitable to shove here?
 
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Deville

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Should you lead out or go for a check-raise with 10/10 on a King turn after getting called in 3 spots on the 9-high rainbow flop and still having 2 players left to deal with? I would think the answer is fairly obvious, but if you really wanted a technical analysis, I would need to get into what I call "Value-bluffs" and "Triangle Plays." Unfortunately, I don't give that kinda info away for free, lol. Experiment with it a bit in the future and I'm sure you'll figure it out. Good luck and have fun.
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

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How much do you charge I neeeeeed that info
 
IPlay

IPlay

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I think I butcher this I 1. Call SB's 3bet pf, but more when 2. I don't shove over CO. For some reason I assigned CO such a small range of Kx because I figured he had two overcards, because what else calls a 3bet preflop and doesn't smash that flop right? I think in reality I should've realized his previous play and understood that these people call preflop raises with ATC, and he probably would've called a shove. How bad is this turn fold?

1. Calling the small 3 bet is ok with such deep stacks.

2. It is tough to shove/4bet pre because of said deep stacks so you are really only ever flatting with 1010 here since you don't want to face a 5 bet shove from the SB.

3. You are maybe right about the CO but in alot of the live games I play in if there are 3 people that put in $40 before them they go "I'm getting 3 to 1 here so I call with 109 sooted"

4. I don't think cut off is ever bluffing in this spot since he still has to beat the other all in stacks anyway. So the question is he flatting the flop and value betting a K turn with a 9x hand? If you say yeah, then call and if you don't think so fold. Shoving is pointless because he may fold his 9x thinking "OMG he has AK" Like a lot of live players do. FWIW I would be very surprised if villain bet 9x on this turn but live players never cease to surprise me... every.... single.... day.....

You are getting a pretty decent price on a call but are you only playing for a side pot at this point? Do you think you are ahead of everyone that is all in for the main pot? I probably annoyingly fold this turn too.
 
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Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

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Results time: Clearly I was frustrated with this hand for a couple reasons.

The biggest one was the CO flips 69o after I fold and beats MP1 (88) for a huge pot. He called a 3bet pf with 69o. WTF?

I have not played a ton of poker in my life, but I suppose this is just a learning point to realize that people do really strange things, and I shouldn't just narrow them down to the things that halfway make sense (calling flop with AK, for example). Rather, I should expect the unexpected from people that have been playing 50% of hands.
 
Mr Sandbag

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FWIW, I probably fold too unless CO has a really high bluffing frequency (even the most "aggressive" live players at this level do not in a spot like this). Just because he turned up with 96o doesn't mean your fold is incorrect.

Pre and flop are fine - though I'd probably bet a bit larger on the flop. Pretty tough to bet turn for value and get called by worse.

Even more difficult to bet turn for value with 96o and get called by worse, especially $175 into a small side pot.
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

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Iplay and Mr. Sandbag, I appreciate the responses. It seems like the jury is kind of out on this hand.
 
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Deville

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Sigh... everyone always says "how do you get called by worse?" as in this case if you bet 10's on the turn. Classic rookie mistake. They've completely forgotten that you're NOT always betting to get called by worse. There are many different reasons to bet, of which value-betting is only one. Think it through: what are some OTHER reasons why you bet in poker? And which ones apply here?
 
Aces2w1n

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Shouldn't have donked on the flop.

fold turn
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

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Shouldn't have bet the flop with an overpair when checked to from pre-flop raiser? Hm whys that?
 
Aces2w1n

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I think donking to the flop isn't all that great because I like the original raiser getting comfortable with his hand.. We don't want to give information on our strength at this stage.

and seriously do you think people have a 9 who re-raised you preflop? I guess if your opponent has a tendency of floating and playing wide then sure its for value. But against a nit they will just fold their overcards and not give you anything.


Also if your villain is attempting a steal or if he does often I wouldn't mind re-raising and playing some poker.


.........................

I don't mind re-raising and trying to get it in on the flop against these guys who play wild with TT .... They willing to play well make them have the hard decisions and watch them stress.


............................

The smile is a sign of strength in a lot of cases tho I guess with tells... but tells are different for everyone.
 
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