$200 NLHE Full Ring: $1/$2 NLHE, FR. AKs OTB, deep stacked, facing 4 bet PF

Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
I played a hand the other day, and I really would appreciate some feedback. I am worried I played it poorly.


My image is pretty tight. I have also shown I can make some good laydowns. I hope to use this to my advantage in the future.



Reads:

MP1, opener... He seems to overvalue his hands. I feel he is making some poor raises, and he doesn't really give enough thought to opponents ranges. He also seems to be oblivious to position, and the tendencies of the others at the table. I have already folded to him before (face up). I think he feels he can run me over.

He is sitting with $480.

I have $800~$850 ish starting hand.

MP2....

Competent player, thinks about ranges. Flat calls too much with A-x type hands and SCs.

He seems to be aware of dynamics and villain tendencies. We have pretty much stayed away from eachother. No leveling wars.

He has $300ish.



On to the hand.


MP1 opens to $12. Pretty standard raise size for the table.

MP2 flats.

Action folds to me OTB.


I look down at AdKd OTB. I decide to 3b, and I make it $40. I can't just flat and go see a 5 way flop.

I have been 3-betting somewhat frequently, but certainly not that often. I haven't shown a light 3-bet yet. No reason for villain to think I am out of line (except for the button in front of me I suppose).



So it folds around to villain. He 4-bets me to $140. He is very aggressive in his demeanor while doing so. He is staring at me, looking like he is thinking "I dare you to call". A big show while he does the chip dance, and places the bet.


MP2 folds, after a little deliberation.



So I am thinking... I can't just spaz out and ship an effective 240 bigs in with AK and flip. I feel like he has a PP. Probably QQ or less. He has another $340 back. All of that will probably be mine if I hit the flop. He will be OOP, about $290 in pot, with a $340 stack.




What should I do here?



I really felt at the time that I should flat and see the flop IP. I also really felt villain didn't have KK or AA. This is based on instinct, and the fact that it looked like he wanted me to fold. I don't think he would behave this way if he had KK+. That's my read, anyways.



So I decide after thinking carefully to call.

Flop is Kh-Jh-6s, about $295 in pot.



Villain immediately ships it for $340. He has that look again like "Yeah that's right, I shoved. I dare you to call this bet!"



I am thinking and thinking. I never thought he had AA or KK. I honestly think he has QQ. If he has JJ, nice hand I guess. But if he has QQ, how can he just ship here? I mean WTF does he think that I have? Pocket 8's? That's what is making me second guess the whole thing.





Hero?
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
Snap call. The stares and act makes me think weakness. Also, dont show off big folds, it will make you level yourself and give opponents reads/tells about your game.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
Snap call. The stares and act makes me think weakness. Also, dont show off big folds, it will make you level yourself and give opponents reads/tells about your game.



Even preflop snap call? 4 bets are pretty rare live at $1/$2. I was pretty confident in my read, bUT I think preflop is questionable by me.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

Stacks & Stacks
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Total posts
8,250
Awards
1
Chips
124
I'd call also. You flat IP, hit gin and get villain shipping into you - not sure what more you expected out of the hand??
 
Delvuter

Delvuter

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Total posts
307
Chips
0
Based on the big stack cash game strategy article it suggests a call pre since you have positional advantage. The article also says that we want to get less excited about TPTK. Just based off that, flat pre. If he ships it post we fold.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
I'd call also. You flat IP, hit gin and get villain shipping into you - not sure what more you expected out of the hand??



I was worried if my read is wrong, I get into a reverse implied odds spot, and should I just be folding in this spot PF.


I couldn't post the results, so I had to stop telling the hand history somewhere. Of course I should call OTF, but I was just wondering if I should be making calls like this one preflop on a read. People are going to have KK+ when they 4-bet frequently. However, I had blockers obv, and a read.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Live, fold to the 4-bet all day.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
Live, fold to the 4-bet all day.

I really don't mind this and use it as a standard. After we show we are capable of making big lay downs and villain kind of putting on a show of strength makes me think he is going to be raising lighter then usual here. This is where showing big folds bites us in the ass though because now we are leveling ourselves in a situation that is usually a clear fold in a deep live game.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
With stacks this deep I wouldn't mind just flatting preflop. Yes there will likely be another caller or 2 but generally we're not going to have to be worried about playing for 250bbs. We have position and a hand that plays well, I don't see the advantage in building a big pot or forcing out all the hands we dominate.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

Stacks & Stacks
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Total posts
8,250
Awards
1
Chips
124
MP1, opener... He seems to overvalue his hands. I feel he is making some poor raises, and he doesn't really give enough thought to opponents ranges. He also seems to be oblivious to position, and the tendencies of the others at the table. I have already folded to him before (face up). I think he feels he can run me over.

I'd call also. You flat IP, hit gin and get villain shipping into you - not sure what more you expected out of the hand??

I was worried if my read is wrong, I get into a reverse implied odds spot, and should I just be folding in this spot PF.


I couldn't post the results, so I had to stop telling the hand history somewhere. Of course I should call OTF, but I was just wondering if I should be making calls like this one preflop on a read. People are going to have KK+ when they 4-bet frequently. However, I had blockers obv, and a read.

If I felt strongly about this read, I wouldn't have second thoughts about it. For me the hand comes down to how well you trust your read. It doesn't take many more combos beyond AA/KK to get this into a +EV situation.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
If I felt strongly about this read, I wouldn't have second thoughts about it. For me the hand comes down to how well you trust your read. It doesn't take many more combos beyond AA/KK to get this into a +EV situation.



I trusted my read, but not 100%. Never really 100% with any read. I would hate to be wrong, and he shows AA when I call flop.


I was exactly right with read. He had QQ exactly. I am thinking postflop though "is this guy really gonna shove QQ here? Does he think I didn't hit this? How could I not have hit this board?"


He was pretty displeased with my call. He did not get lucky either. Ship it right over here dealer.
 
L

lukeellul92

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Total posts
362
Chips
0
Am I the only one who doesn't like your 3bet size pre? $27 in the pot (Blinds), and you 3bet to $40? I'd prefer around $65-75 ish.

On that flop, yeh it sucks, cos out of the 5-6 hands you think he's 4 betting with here, 2 of them just made sets.

Look at it like this though. He's setting himself up to be all in by the river, yes?
Maybe if an A came on the turn he'd slow down, but if that doesn't happen, hes still going to bet. Feel free to get it in on this flop IF you plan on staying in the hand. If you're not folding, then why are you just calling? He's not folding, he's priced himself in.
 
Delvuter

Delvuter

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Total posts
307
Chips
0
Not sure why we would want to 3-bet more than 3X the original bet? Any more than that and the only hands calling beat us.
 
X

Xmaster

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
Total posts
229
Chips
0
Why do you call pre, when you are considering folding TPTK in such a low SPR pot? If you call pre, there is no way you can fold this on the flop. That's a massively exploitable play. You have to consider this before you flat, because your position doesn't matter. I such low spr pots, initiative is much more important than position -> 5bet pre or fold. As I don't have that much experience in live games, I leave this decision to you.
 
el_magiciann

el_magiciann

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
1,971
Chips
0
nice hand i would say, and very good read!
 
W

walleye

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Total posts
71
Chips
0
$1/$2 live table I'd have to call given the other information about the villain. Your worry is that you are facing JJ.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
$1/$2 live table I'd have to call given the other information about the villain. Your worry is that you are facing JJ.



I did consider this. I didn't know how he would play JJ there. I pretty much thought he wouldn't raise JJ like that, but it is possile. Nice hand if he has JJ, sucks to be us.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
With stacks this deep I wouldn't mind just flatting preflop. Yes there will likely be another caller or 2 but generally we're not going to have to be worried about playing for 250bbs. We have position and a hand that plays well, I don't see the advantage in building a big pot or forcing out all the hands we dominate.



Yeah, I definitely think this is a viable option. I could flat here also. I don't mind it. I still am working on introducing more 3b's to my game. This one kinda got crazy.
 
Top