$200 NLHE 6-max: Should I have played this draw?

Shwiggler

Shwiggler

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 29.4/17.6/2

Hand Converted by Ace Poker Drills Poker Training Software

NL Holdem $2(BB)
SB ($210)
BB ($307.5)
UTG ($199.5)
HERO ($180)
CO ($518.75)
BTN ($213)

Dealt to Hero 9:diamond: 8:diamond:

UTG Raises To $6 , HERO Calls $6 , CO Folds , BTN Calls $6 , SB Folds , BB Folds

Flop ($18 ) 7:diamond: 5:club: 4:diamond:
UTG Checks , HERO Checks , BTN Bets $16 , UTG Folds , HERO Raises To $48 , BTN Raises To $199 , HERO Calls $126 (all-in)

Turn ($407) 7:diamond: 5:club: 4:diamond: Q:diamond:

River ($407) 7:diamond: 5:club: 4:diamond: Q:diamond: 7:club:
 
vanquish

vanquish

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yea seems fine, maybe raise a bit bigger OTF
 
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RVladimiro

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I was writting a big text but the question here is: what range did you give him for this shove? In the range I put him, you are ahead but almost flipping (54/46).
 
vanquish

vanquish

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once you raise the flop, you're calling a jam no matter how narrow a range you assign him
 
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RVladimiro

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once you raise the flop, you're calling a jam no matter how narrow a range you assign him

Sorry to hijack but I have a doubt. Would calling a jam make any sense if we're deepstacked with just a FD? Maybe we don't have odds to call a jam.

Maybe I'm missing something.
 
cardriverx

cardriverx

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Sorry to hijack but I have a doubt. Would calling a jam make any sense if we're deepstacked with just a FD? Maybe we don't have odds to call a jam.

Maybe I'm missing something.

With the raise he already has $54 / $180 in the pot. He has to call there with the FD + Gutshot.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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Sorry to hijack but I have a doubt. Would calling a jam make any sense if we're deepstacked with just a FD? Maybe we don't have odds to call a jam.

Maybe I'm missing something.

we're not deep-stacked (OP, rebuy to 100 BBs, yo!) but yeah, once you raise the flop, you have to call it off given the amount of money in the pot


it'd also be better to raise bigger OTF because you'd probably have a bit more fold equity (the way you make money in this hand), but that's kind of nit-picky anyways
 
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RVladimiro

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With the raise he already has $54 / $180 in the pot. He has to call there with the FD + Gutshot.

I understand that. My doubt is if we have just a FD (let's say we have undercards and no other draws) and we're deepstacked. We wouldn't have odds to call a shove.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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uhh yeah i guess if the OP has a different hand and the stack sizes are different, then you would probably have different odds......
 
JOEBOB69

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I understand that. My doubt is if we have just a FD (let's say we have undercards and no other draws) and we're deepstacked. We wouldn't have odds to call a shove.
Easy to figure the odds on that one you only have 9 outs 0 implied odds.
 
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Gunner57

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To me its a fold preflop.

After the flop I would think villain has overpair, set, or higher flush draw.

1) Most likely I would say likely villain has 99+ or set. So we have 9 flush draws, and 4 outs for the stra8 so really it is about a coin flip after the flop if he has overpair or set.


2) Possibly villain has higher flush draw leaving you with three 9, three fours, and three 6 (minus 6 of diamond) for outs so 9 outs total. Giving you about a 35% equity.


I would say raise on the flop would be ok as a semi bluff but not a huge fan of the re-raise as it is already headsup. Your flush is not so strong that you can feel 100% about it (but still can feel good enough for some betting and showdown) and if you hit a 6 no one is going to think you really hit the str8 and should get paid off. So no real advantage IMO to re-raising ( Maybe some value if you catch your outs and are not beat, Not getting rid of dead money, bluff not going to work).


Really, I just would not call 89 suited after UTG raised. I fold and wait for when I am in better position or have a better hand.
 
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Nikeballa07

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depending on what range you have him on for example any over pair not holding a diamond u had 47.2% to draw out, if u have him on 2 overs then you'd win 56.9%, for some reason though i have no info on the player i doub't he had higher flush draw looks like he was betting to get people off the flush draw or i guess possibly a semi bluff, but he has a pretty wide range considering he is on the button and only called preflop (just wondering should the pot have been $21 after the flop considering 3 callers for $6 and big and small blind), but anyways im curious what was the result im assuming you lost since you posted it here ha
 
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Gunner57

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I guess I did not put it in my earlier post. Since you called pre. ON the flop I would bet/call. Turn I would bet/call. River I would bet/call or check/call if he re-raised on the turn.


Again in long run I think it is generally better to fold 98 suited in Early Position unless you know UTG villan has a wide opening range which at this level is not likely unless he is a total Donk.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Fold preflop

1.) you are very likely to get squeezed
2.) if you are unlikely to get squeezed then you are very likely to have poor relative and absolute position post flop, i.e. you are in the middle.
3.) 9high isnt that great a hand.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Again in long run I think it is generally better to fold 98 suited in Early Position unless you know UTG villan has a wide opening range which at this level is not likely unless he is a total Donk.

Its the complete opposite, if villian has a narrow range then we want to be playing hands like 98s because we can get paid when we hit, if he has a wide range then he probably dosent pay off enough to justify the call.

When we cold call here we risk being squeezed because we dont have a hand thats why we called!.

So we have to factor in to our implied odds the fact that we wont be seeing 100% of flops anyway, which therefore reduces our implied odds postflop.
 
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Gunner57

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Its the complete opposite, if villian has a narrow range then we want to be playing hands like 98s because we can get paid when we hit, if he has a wide range then he probably dosent pay off enough to justify the call.

When we cold call here we risk being squeezed because we dont have a hand thats why we called!.

So we have to factor in to our implied odds the fact that we wont be seeing 100% of flops anyway, which therefore reduces our implied odds postflop.

Stu,

So essentially it is a call if you can put your villian on an strong hand and are confident that you can see a flop.....

It is a fold if we will have a more difficult time putting villan on a small hand range after the flop and/or there is a good chance somone behind will raise...

I also dont think you want callers behind as well right? It seems to me that many times with UTG raises and then there is an immediate caller there are more callers in late position with wider ranges since we are giving better odds.... It will increase our implied odds but will make it more difficult after the flop if we catch something like 2 pair or bottom str8 where we think we are ahead of the UTG but could be behind late position preflop caller.

If you think you can see a flop you are paying to have your 98s vs AK-A10, AA-TT for the implied odds when you catch a strong hand (villan will not see coming) and ability to easily throw away if you catch nothing.... I agree about this if you can get it heads up.

I think that makes sense but conditions would need to be just right for a call here still IMO. I like the idea of slipping some of these hands in my early position if conditions are right though. Thank you.
 
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fkucdaw0rld

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personally i would have played the hand pre, i wouldnt have raised the flop tho how u did...would have called and then depending on the action on the turn i would have played it...theres too many hands i could imagine villain playing the way he did: overpair, set, or better FD...if i flatcalled the flop there and he shoves the turn i probably fold...that would b a really tough spot for me tho idk...what was the result???
 
Shwiggler

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I appreciate all the back and forth going on because of this hand. Gives me a lot of perspective.
 
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