$200 NLHE 6-max: Over Agro Reg...any advice?

Shwiggler

Shwiggler

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Total posts
261
Chips
0
Hand Converted by Ace Poker Drills Poker Training Software

NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($13.75)
BB ($544)
UTG ($295)
CO ($65.80)
Hero ($235)

Dealt to Hero T:club: T:spade:

UTG raises to $7, fold, Hero calls $7, fold, fold

FLOP ($17) 7:club: 2:heart: 6:club:

UTG bets $12.75, Hero calls $12.75

TURN ($42.50) 7:club: 2:heart: 6:club: 5:diamond:

UTG bets $31.87, Hero calls $31.87
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
How aggro is he? I'd say it's a turn fold against all but the most spewtastic.
 
S

Six Hurdles

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Total posts
161
Chips
0
This looks really really flush drawish to me. The turn bet seems way to big to be for value. I don't think a big pp is betting over 3/4 of the pot. I think I'm calling anything on the river but a club or an ace. A 9 falling on the river is disconcerting but how does he have an 8 here? Pocket 8's I suppose, but meh.

I don't know about the flat pre on the button though. I'm probably going with 18-20ish.

P.S. I am not sure my opinion counts for much because I know I look at the game imperfectly. Sorry, in advance, if this is bad play. I'm trying to learn and think through the hands.
 
Last edited:
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
he started the hand 295 BBs deep vs. the BB and raised 7x. He's trying to get stacks in
 
S

Six Hurdles

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Total posts
161
Chips
0
Oh my, I was thinking 1/2 for some reason. Does the $2(bb) at the beginning of the hh mean 2 $1 blinds?

Edit: no, it has to be 1/2 because there's 17 in the pot after a raise to 7 and call where the blinds folded.
 
Last edited:
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Yeah he mistitled it as 100nl, which would have made them really deep. It still doesn't change my opinion about folding the turn against 95% of REG villains.

I will change the title to say 200nl.
 
Last edited:
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
I think you have to fold the turn here.

He has to be barreling with not suited over-cards for you to be ahead on the turn.

If he is just betting over-pairs and FD here you cant really call
 
S

Six Hurdles

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Total posts
161
Chips
0
I think I'm going based on his bet sizing. 3/4 pot on the turn is not at all inviting and makes me think he wants me out more than in. I suppose that JJ or possibly QQ might do that feeling vulnerable. But does AA or KK?
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
yes

he doesn't expect you to fold an overpair.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
Its probably worth noting that a lot of people confuse good value betters with being overly agro and call lighter as a result.
 
S

Six Hurdles

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Total posts
161
Chips
0
That's worth thinking on. Ty sir.
 
S

Six Hurdles

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Total posts
161
Chips
0
what about the other point? do you flat w/ TT on the button with a single action ahead?
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
I used to 3-bet TT in this spot vs. UTG and call it off for ~100 BBs against this type of player (I assume 27/23ish). I did reasonably well in those hands. In retrospect, that seems really baddish to me now.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
Ya you definitely need quite a bit of history to be getting in TT utg/btn as a standard. 3betting for value vs someone who flats a lot is another story obv.
 
U

Ubercroz

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Total posts
653
Chips
0
I think you have to fold the turn here.

He has to be barreling with not suited over-cards for you to be ahead on the turn.

If he is just betting over-pairs and FD here you cant really call

I have a question in regards to this hand. I usually track whats going on when people say fold turn always and there is broad agreement. I don't quite get it here though.

UTG in 6-Max, his range is like A2-A5s, AT-AKs, JT-KQs, 22+, AJ-AKo and maybe a little more. (am I wrong here?)

Our range is fairly broad on the button, I meanlike 45% of hands or something.

That flop should be super good for us and bad for him.

He still has a good number of flush draws potentially, rarely ever a straight draw. Sometimes a set, and more often than a set and overpair.

So he bets the flop- which he does with potentially 100% of his range and we flat.

The turn is essentially a blank, that is a great card to double barrel someone (us) with a large portion of your range again. We have a hand that has showdown value and we will commit less than 30% of our stack if we call. So why are we folding when what we have does pretty well against his range there?

WE can fold the river and still not be committed, and he may let us get to showdown for free.

So why is this a snap fold because I don't see it that way, and maybe situations like this are leaks in my play I need to address.
 
S

Six Hurdles

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Total posts
161
Chips
0
I have a question in regards to this hand. I usually track whats going on when people say fold turn always and there is broad agreement. I don't quite get it here though.

UTG in 6-Max, his range is like A2-A5s, AT-AKs, JT-KQs, 22+, AJ-AKo and maybe a little more. (am I wrong here?)

Our range is fairly broad on the button, I meanlike 45% of hands or something.

That flop should be super good for us and bad for him.

He still has a good number of flush draws potentially, rarely ever a straight draw. Sometimes a set, and more often than a set and overpair.

So he bets the flop- which he does with potentially 100% of his range and we flat.

The turn is essentially a blank, that is a great card to double barrel someone (us) with a large portion of your range again. We have a hand that has showdown value and we will commit less than 30% of our stack if we call. So why are we folding when what we have does pretty well against his range there?

WE can fold the river and still not be committed, and he may let us get to showdown for free.

So why is this a snap fold because I don't see it that way, and maybe situations like this are leaks in my play I need to address.

^^this^^
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Our range is face up -- we have more than 1 pair here like, never

Turn is not a blank, it fills all straight draws and should be better for us than him. But he's firing anyway

If he's double barreling air there's absolutely no reason to think he's going to give us a cheap showdown. Thus, if you continue here, you're probably better off raising.

Raising seems really meh/thin though.

Calling here probably commits us to putting in another $80-$100 though.
 
U

Ubercroz

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Total posts
653
Chips
0
Our range is face up -- we have more than 1 pair here like, never

Turn is not a blank, it fills all straight draws and should be better for us than him. But he's firing anyway

If he's double barreling air there's absolutely no reason to think he's going to give us a cheap showdown. Thus, if you continue here, you're probably better off raising.

Raising seems really meh/thin though.

Calling here probably commits us to putting in another $80-$100 though.

Thats a good point, when I said turn was a blank, I meant the turn shouldn't help him. But you're right it is certainly not a blank and should help our range more than his. so why is HE firing here?

It's a reg who should know our range is pretty good on this flop, so how does that help us narrow his range? Does he ONLY have sets here? I think his range is broader than that. I probably just need to jam it in poker stove for the things that make sense and see where we would be at.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
No he has a lot of overpairs.

After flop call, we quite clearly have a hand that wants to get to the river. There's no reason to think an overly aggro reg is going to stop betting JJ+ on this turn or check back any river with any of his range.
 
Last edited:
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
What baudib is saying. He has overpairs, sets, and the few 2p/straight hands that might have raised utg.

People just don't barrel horrible turn cards with draws on board with air/overcards. I mean maybe he does with 44 to get you off better, but even then it's such a clear fold it's not even funny. This is with a copious number of flush draws, and even a really unlikely 88-TT added in, which is basically never taking this huge sizing imo:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 69.161% 68.39% 00.77% 1956 22.00 { 55+, 22, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, Ac4c, Ac3c, Ac2c, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, Tc9c, 98s }
Hand 1: 30.839% 30.07% 00.77% 860 22.00 { TcTs }

/thread
 
Top