$200 NLHE 6-max: Opinions on this?

Alucard

Alucard

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UTG: 212.17 BB
MP: 239.17 BB
CO: 174 BB
BTN: 94.67 BB
SB: 158.5 BB
Hero (BB): 127 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Js Jh
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 8 BB, BTN calls 6 BB

Flop : (16.5 BB, 2 players) 6s 8s 7d
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn : (16.5 BB, 2 players) 3d
Hero bets 23.83 BB, BTN calls 23.83 BB

River : (64.17 BB, 2 players) 5h
Hero checks, BTN bets 42.67 BB, Hero calls 42.67 BB

villain plays 30/16/6, fold to 3b 7/11, fold to 3b from BTN 2/2
My initial thoughts were that I played this hand pretty bad.
For one I don't have an actual gameplan for a hand as JJ/TT on such a board
But then I thought about it & actually the villain should be betting a shit ton of his holdings here when I check it to him
Also should mention that he snap called my turn overbet which doesn't make much sense anything else other than a flush draw (spades or diamonds) to me. Maybe could have some thing like T8s I guess
I expect him to bet most of his 9xes on flop

This is the range I assinged to him. Added some value hands even though I think he should bet them
http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 7d8s6s3d5h
equity Win Tie
BU 33.33% 33.33% 0.00% { 55, A9s-A8s, J9s, AdQd, AsQs, KdQd, KsQs, AdJd, KdJd, KsJs, QdJd, QsJs, AdTd, AsTs, KdTd, KsTs, QdTd, QsTs, JdTd, JsTs, Ad5d, As5s, Ad4d, As4s, Ad3d, As3s, Ad2d, As2s }
BB 66.67% 66.67% 0.00% { JhJs }

So even though I thought my river call was bad at that time it doesn't seem so bad to me now. I beat all of his busted flush draws
what do you think?
 
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gustav197poker

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I guess it was a fairly fair call 2.5 / 1. For the rest, you could have intuited a specific reading in this V. I think we can approach 50/50 with this spot you raised. But if we think of a slightly more polarized range this is a fold in the river.
Greetings.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
Almost mandatory to 3-bet for value here with JJ against a BTN mini-raise. Sizing also looks good.

Flop
Totally fine checking this. Its a really dangerous board for an overpair, and I don’t think, there is a lot of value to be had here for us.

Turn
He checked back flop, and turn was a complete brick, so I like betting for value now. I am not sure about the sizing though? Maybe this is ok in a high stakes game, because people will think about defending enough of the time. But from the perspective of a micro stakes player I would see this bet size as mostly just ending the hand.

River
Its difficult for me to analyse the river, because you just never see this kind of turn bet sizing in the micros. So I have no idea, what this guy can have, which was not good enough to bet the flop, but it was good enough to call an overbet on the turn. If I had to guess, I would assume something like 99 or 98s though. A hand, which is beating your bluffs, but also has equity against your value range. Unfortunately those hands now got there, so I would check-fold.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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Preflop
I would assume something like 99 or 98s though. A hand, which is beating your bluffs, but also has equity against your value range. Unfortunately those hands now got there, so I would check-fold.


Both those hands should bet the flop when checked to
Also I'm uncertain about my flop check & turn overbet. Might be fps

Also you can't always consider the hands that got there. You have to consider the hands that didn't get there as well. In this case he has too many busted flush draws than straight draws.
 
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fundiver199

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In this case he has too many busted flush draws than straight draws.

Only if those flushdraws call the turn overbet. If I face an overbet with just a draw, I insta dump my hand. Direct odds are terrible and implied odds usually not good enough to compensate for this. I honestly have no idea, what his range can be, because most of the hands, that were good enough to call on the turn, should also have bet the flop.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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I also like pre flop action and sizing.
I like flop check on this board for pot control, deception, and practicality as we are almost never getting 3 streets without a miracle run out.
Turn I like a value bet but I don't see the value in sizing up past pot when we don't block much (just one spade blocker and no straight blockers). If they are calling pot then they are also calling 1.5x pot. Either bet should be enough to fold out a standard draw. Being out of position also really sucks because if we get called what's our plan on the river after creating a pretty big pot? I assume we are pretty much never 3 betting T9 or any of the straights from the blinds so I think we are capped at over pairs and sets for value along with some big flush draws that wont be able to call river if we miss. So I would bet 3/4 pot up to pot for value and protection. This also saves us money if we decide to call down river as Vs river bet will likely be a function of pot size.

River is pretty gross. I'm not sure if I like b/f, x/f, or x/c better. I think we invite large bluffs by checking so if we check I prefer to fold to his sizing. If we bet we can go 1/2 pot and fold to a raise to set our own price. This could be misguided online though as in live low stakes poker the river is very under bluffed and thin value is often flatted by better rather than raised when it's not nutted.
 
0815am

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Pre and flop are fine.

How wouldnypuvhave played Hand if he had bet flop? XC XF?

As played I agree that I don’t think turn overbet is benefitting us. Aren’t we folding out Most worse hands and only get called by better. I usually interpreted a turn overbet after a XX flop as a missed XR and eagerness to build pot. So I’d put you on a polarized range.

After you then Checking river, I would check behind all marginal hands and only bet bluffs and strong made hands.
 
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I liked the pre flop raise, lthough I tend to raise a little more vs min raise. Flop was a missed c-bet. I like to bet 3/4 pot. Obviously betting the turn as well trying to leave enough to threaten a shove on the river, and continue to give bad odds - something like 1/2 pot. Yes one possible draw came in and he could be trapping, but it's not really all that likely. River changes nothing. Either he's been slow playing or chasing. I hate calling, and I'm not planning to fold, so I'm betting about half pot. If it gets jammed I'll likely life a stack. It's just a hazards of the game. I expect most people to have a pair or a busted draw here . Nitty and timid players will always show up with a big hand though, be so you need to know your opponent. Vs one of those guys, I'm typically slowing down on the turn and looking to show down cheap.
 
hackmeplz

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Preflop obviously standard. Flop I know some people bet but I think it's a super standard ch/c. Turn I'm honestly not sure why you're betting that sizing. Maybe if you're in some leveling war with him or something, but as part of a balanced strategy what's your goal with that bet with your overall betting range? Almost all your hands that want to overbet that turn would have bet the flop, with the exception of exactly 33? But I personally don't like 3betting low pairs out of the blinds I think they play much better as calls. So we go back to the fact that even if this action seems fineish with your hand, it's pretty bad for your overall range here. Just bet 2/3 pot imo.

As played I'm honestly not sure wtf is going on. I think most people bet flop when checked to there with 9x or a fd. I could see him checking back 98 without a fd, and that would make sense why he obviously called the turn overbet, but that's about it, and I think most 200nl regs would actually bet that on the flop. He could maybe have 33? But again I expect 33 to bet this flop when checked to as it's weak enough to turn into a bluff and his range wrecks yours on that flop.

But yeah I guess he's not really folding nut flush draws to the turn bet, so maybe that alone gives him enough combos to call with your hand? I feel like I'm definitely calling if I get to the river like this with this hand, but I'm certainly not happy about it and I probably post the hand on CC lol.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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Preflop obviously standard. Flop I know some people bet but I think it's a super standard ch/c. Turn I'm honestly not sure why you're betting that sizing. Maybe if you're in some leveling war with him or something, but as part of a balanced strategy what's your goal with that bet with your overall betting range? Almost all your hands that want to overbet that turn would have bet the flop, with the exception of exactly 33? But I personally don't like 3betting low pairs out of the blinds I think they play much better as calls. So we go back to the fact that even if this action seems fineish with your hand, it's pretty bad for your overall range here. Just bet 2/3 pot imo.

As played I'm honestly not sure wtf is going on. I think most people bet flop when checked to there with 9x or a fd. I could see him checking back 98 without a fd, and that would make sense why he obviously called the turn overbet, but that's about it, and I think most 200nl regs would actually bet that on the flop. He could maybe have 33? But again I expect 33 to bet this flop when checked to as it's weak enough to turn into a bluff and his range wrecks yours on that flop.

But yeah I guess he's not really folding nut flush draws to the turn bet, so maybe that alone gives him enough combos to call with your hand? I feel like I'm definitely calling if I get to the river like this with this hand, but I'm certainly not happy about it and I probably post the hand on CC lol.



You have posted most of my thought process at the time.
He should be betting a shit ton on the flop when checked to. Most of his 9x es, all his sets, two pairs, overpairs & flush draws. If he is checking back, some flush draws with decent showdown value makes sense to me.

Turn is a double bdfd & he's a bit of a station, so I overbet trying to put him in a hard spot with his backdoors. I know for a fact he ain't folding to a pot size bet at all with his flush draws because he's that sticky.

So to me on the river, he has way more busted flush draws than completed straights so made sense to bluff catch.
I'm not entirely happy with the line I took. I think I should just bet/overbet the flop with TT,JJ while xc with AA,KK prolly.

He had 5s btw & might've called the turn thinking I'm bluffing & since he has some equity.
Whenever a player takes a line like mine, others always assume it's AK :D
 
hackmeplz

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I mean I'm not shocked he called turn with 55 I'm more surprised he didn't bet flop with that hand.
 
Evan Jarvis

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UTG: 212.17 BB
MP: 239.17 BB
CO: 174 BB
BTN: 94.67 BB
SB: 158.5 BB
Hero (BB): 127 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Js Jh
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 8 BB, BTN calls 6 BB

Flop : (16.5 BB, 2 players) 6s 8s 7d
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn : (16.5 BB, 2 players) 3d
Hero bets 23.83 BB, BTN calls 23.83 BB

River : (64.17 BB, 2 players) 5h
Hero checks, BTN bets 42.67 BB, Hero calls 42.67 BB

villain plays 30/16/6, fold to 3b 7/11, fold to 3b from BTN 2/2
My initial thoughts were that I played this hand pretty bad.
For one I don't have an actual gameplan for a hand as JJ/TT on such a board
But then I thought about it & actually the villain should be betting a shit ton of his holdings here when I check it to him
Also should mention that he snap called my turn overbet which doesn't make much sense anything else other than a flush draw (spades or diamonds) to me. Maybe could have some thing like T8s I guess
I expect him to bet most of his 9xes on flop

This is the range I assinged to him. Added some value hands even though I think he should bet them
http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 7d8s6s3d5h
Equity Win Tie
BU 33.33% 33.33% 0.00% { 55, A9s-A8s, J9s, AdQd, AsQs, KdQd, KsQs, AdJd, KdJd, KsJs, QdJd, QsJs, AdTd, AsTs, KdTd, KsTs, QdTd, QsTs, JdTd, JsTs, Ad5d, As5s, Ad4d, As4s, Ad3d, As3s, Ad2d, As2s }
BB 66.67% 66.67% 0.00% { JhJs }

So even though I thought my river call was bad at that time it doesn't seem so bad to me now. I beat all of his busted flush draws
what do you think?

He likely value bets any sets and many of the strong overpairs on flop (if he has them).
Just flatting turn he can have all the draws as you assigned.

and on river yes 9x got there (which I think he can have, so keeping them in range and maybe adding in 99 as well is an option) but everything else missed.

I think as played it's an easy river call and hope you run into the lower part of his range :)
 
Aballinamion

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Beating famous aggro whale out of position

UTG: 212.17 BB
MP: 239.17 BB
CO: 174 BB
BTN: 94.67 BB
SB: 158.5 BB
Hero (BB): 127 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Js Jh
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 8 BB, BTN calls 6 BB

Flop : (16.5 BB, 2 players) 6s 8s 7d
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn : (16.5 BB, 2 players) 3d
Hero bets 23.83 BB, BTN calls 23.83 BB

River : (64.17 BB, 2 players) 5h
Hero checks, BTN bets 42.67 BB, Hero calls 42.67 BB

villain plays 30/16/6, fold to 3b 7/11, fold to 3b from BTN 2/2
My initial thoughts were that I played this hand pretty bad.
For one I don't have an actual gameplan for a hand as JJ/TT on such a board
But then I thought about it & actually the villain should be betting a shit ton of his holdings here when I check it to him
Also should mention that he snap called my turn overbet which doesn't make much sense anything else other than a flush draw (spades or diamonds) to me. Maybe could have some thing like T8s I guess
I expect him to bet most of his 9xes on flop

This is the range I assinged to him. Added some value hands even though I think he should bet them
http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 7d8s6s3d5h
Equity Win Tie
BU 33.33% 33.33% 0.00% { 55, A9s-A8s, J9s, AdQd, AsQs, KdQd, KsQs, AdJd, KdJd, KsJs, QdJd, QsJs, AdTd, AsTs, KdTd, KsTs, QdTd, QsTs, JdTd, JsTs, Ad5d, As5s, Ad4d, As4s, Ad3d, As3s, Ad2d, As2s }
BB 66.67% 66.67% 0.00% { JhJs }

So even though I thought my river call was bad at that time it doesn't seem so bad to me now. I beat all of his busted flush draws
what do you think?

Hi thanks for sharing your hand, Alucard.

Preflop:

Against a player with a broken stack, who elects to "mini-raise", and spaz stats of 30/16/6, I am totally on board of 3-betting 99% of times, because this guys simply calls too much. As it is a recreational player we could go for 9x, but 8x is okay too, given it was just a 2x preflop raise.

The Flop Scenario:

This is not a dream flop for our range, however it is not too much scary. Given that this Villain is basically an aggro donk, anything we do can be correct, however I guess the check in this speficif flop to be a little +EV, because it will induce Villain to think that we were just re-stealing preflop BB x BTN. (The fish can see your check as a weakness)
I assume that recreational players don't understand enough about ranges and that we are checking a lot out of position, even when we 3-bet in flops where we could be already dominated.
Aggression factor of 6, usually indicates that this recreational could be classified as the Aggro Donkey type. It should be bluffing this flop in a high frequency with whatever, 6x, 7x, 8x, two overcards, 9x, 5x, even Tx, draws of spades, pheew, you name it! This player calls too much.
Do you have the stats of C-bet flop/fold c-bet flop and c-bet turn/fold c-bet turn of this Villain?

The Turn:

Mostly a brick, nothing to be worried and given that spaz Aggro Donkey checked flop we elect to go for a overbet for value, which is pretty okay versus this specific kindda of non-sense aggressive-calling-loose whale (AF 6). The fact that Villain snap-called it doesn't make too much difference, since it could be tank calling or snap calling with a huge calling range, it doesn't matter too much.

The River Madness

There are 64 blinds on the pot and Villain goes for 2/3 pot, betting 42 blinds? Considering how weak this player is, we should be calling this almost, always? If it completed a straight, or has us beat with two pair, whatever: the board has a lot of missed draws, were smarty aggro donkey could be trying to bluff river (since we never have enough information about river bets/bluffs versus recreational ones, but they also don't have enough information about us). Why? Because we checked the flop and on rivers like this Aggro 'ish' will assume we will have a lot of Ax, Kx missed types, when we don't.
If this player was a , a NIT, a Passive fish or a Passive TAG, I would be folding this 100% of times because I would understand this river bet as a very good price, which is beggin' me, like the mermaids compelled the sailors, to pay and see it with a better hand.
Against good TAGs we can be calling here 50%, 60% of times because real TAGs are able to be bluffing missed draws on this river, although I believe that because the pot already has 64 blinds, they would not go for 2/3, instead TAGs would be jamming here with all the value/bluffing range turning the BB's call very hard, but this is not the case here!
This 2/3 pot bet on the river is a little bit suspicious but doesn't make any sense.
If a TAG is bluffing missed draws on a river like this (specially the missed draws of spades with overcards), Aggro Donkey can be bluffing Ace high, King high, pocket 22, you name it.
If Aggro Donkey happens to be smart and bets 2/3 to induce more calls when it has hit its non-sense range, good for her/him, what matters is that in the long run this approach will be more profitable than his.
To finish, if we call here is okay, if we jam is also okay, depending on stacks too. If we are not respecting whales at the micros, at 200 NLHE we should be exterminating them. Well played.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
Aballinamion

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I also like pre flop action and sizing.
I like flop check on this board for pot control, deception, and practicality as we are almost never getting 3 streets without a miracle run out.
Turn I like a value bet but I don't see the value in sizing up past pot when we don't block much (just one spade blocker and no straight blockers). If they are calling pot then they are also calling 1.5x pot. Either bet should be enough to fold out a standard draw. Being out of position also really sucks because if we get called what's our plan on the river after creating a pretty big pot? I assume we are pretty much never 3 betting T9 or any of the straights from the blinds so I think we are capped at over pairs and sets for value along with some big flush draws that wont be able to call river if we miss. So I would bet 3/4 pot up to pot for value and protection. This also saves us money if we decide to call down river as Vs river bet will likely be a function of pot size.

River is pretty gross. I'm not sure if I like b/f, x/f, or x/c better. I think we invite large bluffs by checking so if we check I prefer to fold to his sizing. If we bet we can go 1/2 pot and fold to a raise to set our own price. This could be misguided online though as in live low stakes poker the river is very under bluffed and thin value is often flatted by better rather than raised when it's not nutted.

Hey buddy, thanks for your analysis, is very good! Don't mean to be rude here, or try to tell you what is right, but have you consider Villain to be an "Aggro Donkey", stats 30/16/6? I guess your analysis make total sense if Alucard was playing versus another regular, but even so I liked very much to look like this.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
C

c0rnBr34d

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Hey buddy, thanks for your analysis, is very good! Don't mean to be rude here, or try to tell you what is right, but have you consider Villain to be an "Aggro Donkey", stats 30/16/6? I guess your analysis make total sense if Alucard was playing versus another regular, but even so I liked very much to look like this.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
Hey man. No worries. I don’t remember the part about V being a donkey. I agree that his VPIP is high but there are many winning players who play looser and more aggressive. I don’t automatically assume they are clueless. My main concern is our relative hand strength against a loose range. V has tons of two pair hands and sets and straights (especially the low end). Since he’s wide we have to bet for value but I don’t think we need to overbet. I would much rather build a large pot when V has less combos that beat us. His PFR and 3 bet seem good to me so I’m not sure he’s just super aggro all the time. Even a fish can show up with 2 pair here and not have much of a fold button. When we keep the pot smaller in marginal spots like this we win less but also lose less. Why not wait for a better spot to overbet is my main point with this hand. That would make the river call (or bet/fold) much less costly.
 
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