$200 NLHE 6-max: KQ top pair in 3-bet pot

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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$200 NL HE 6-max: KQ top pair in 3-bet pot

Long-term, villain is 20/16/3, 3bets %5, cbets 2/3 the time in 3bet pots and overall check-raises turn only %7.

Today he's playing a little more aggressive, hence me defending my open with KQ. Even so I wouldn't argue with folding, but on to postflop...

Flop he folds fairly well to raises so it's basically wa/wb. I think flatting is the only play.

Turn: are we betting? Bet-calling? Bet-folding? Check it back?

poker stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BTN: $142.15 (71.1 bb)
SB: $207.60 (103.8 bb)
BB: $439.40 (219.7 bb)
UTG: $200 (100 bb)
MP: $83.50 (41.8 bb)
Hero (CO): $392.25 (196.1 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Q:heart: K:spade:
2 folds, Hero raises to $6, BTN folds, SB raises to $22, BB folds, Hero calls $16

Flop: ($46) 4:heart: 8:spade: K:heart: (2 players)
SB bets $24, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($94) J:heart: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero ...
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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I usually check this back and call any river bet. Betting the turn basically commits us and I'm not too thrilled getting it in here. As you said, it's basically WA/WB and your hand is for the most part a bluff catcher.
 
F Paulsson

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I like checking it back and getting one bet in for value on the river, although I'd check back an ace (but still call if he bets). If he check/raises any river that's not a jack, I call.

Don't get me wrong; I still bet a jack-river. I'd just make my bet size such that I could fold to a raise, because I think QJ/AJ/JT is going to be a large portion of his range when he checks the turn and goes for a check/raise when hitting trips.
 
BelgoSuisse

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I'm with Fredrick, here. check back turn, get one bet of value on river.
 
ChuckTs

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Don't you guys think there's value to get from Jx and draws? Or is that too thin?
 
BelgoSuisse

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Don't you guys think there's value to get from Jx and draws? Or is that too thin?

there might be, but not much, and there's also $$ to be lost to AK who lets you bluff your entire floating range by checking turn and letting you represent a flush.

Also, if you bet turn, are you bet/folding to a CRAI?
 
ChuckTs

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there might be, but not much, and there's also $$ to be lost to AK who lets you bluff your entire floating range by checking turn and letting you represent a flush.

That's true, and I'm not sure if value betting the draws and worse hands is greater than the value lost by betting into the better ones.

Also, if you bet turn, are you bet/folding to a CRAI?

As for what we do vs a ch-r should we bet the turn, I have no idea. In the actual hand I bet/folded which feels icky.

I'm not sure Ahx ch-raises this turn instead of just betting or check-calling, which is what we'd need him to do, and often, for calling a crai to be profitable.

Board: Kh 8s 4h Jh
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.871% 30.87% 00.00% 326 0.00 { KdQh }
Hand 1: 69.129% 69.13% 00.00% 730 0.00 { KK+, JJ, 88, 44, AcKh, AdKh, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AsKh, AcQh, AdQh, AhQc, AhQd, AhQs, AsQh, AcJh, AdJh, AhJc, AhJd, AhJs, AsJh }

Looking at some hands that he'll check-shove with (being generous to myself with AJ/AQ), we're toast. So we can't call if he CRsAI unless we start adding stuff like Ah9x which I think is a pretty big assumption.
 
F Paulsson

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Some of the hands you have in his range include the Qh, which you have in your hand. I don't know how big of a difference it makes, and it certainly doesn't improve your chances, but still.
 
BelgoSuisse

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In the actual hand I bet/folded which feels icky.

:eek: , that's a really terrible result, indeed.

Against hands that were ahead without Ah, you lost the about 20% equity you had with flush/two pairs/trips outs.

And if he does that with very aggressively played draws, you lost even more. And yet i doubt bet/calling is any better than bet/folding.

checking back is really the best line, imo.
 
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feitr

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Without a really aggro dynamic i'd check this back on turn and prob call any river bet and vbet river if villain checks it. Hand isn't really strong enough to get more than one street over turn/river anyways. As for the "charging Jx and draws" idea - there aren't really many draws that would flat a turn bet anyways, as villain isn't showing up with like QTh or AhXair very often either and a J would only call one street regardless. And by checking turn, i think you greatly increase the odds that villain will pay you off on river with a J, as opposed to him calling turn with a J when he may have to face a river shove.
 
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