$200 NLHE 6-max: $1/$3 Live - Making a move with ATo

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6bet me

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This was a $1/$3 live game I played at a casino with a $200 max buy-in. We were playing short-handed (only 5 players on the table) and the villain was a typical live reg (not great but not awful either). I thought I'd make a move on him and it went as follows:

Hero (BB) has $180
Villain (BTN) has $500
Villain 2 (SB) has $500

Hero is dealt ATo in BB
SB posts $1, Hero posts $3

Folds to BTN who raises to $12
SB calls $11
Hero (BB) re-raises to $50
BTN calls $38
SB folds

$101 in pot (2 players)
Flop shows K83 rainbow

Hero shoves ALL-IN for $130

What do you think about the way I played this hand? Clever and creative, or spewy and awful?
 
TimovieMan

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Good online, spewy live, I'd reckon.
 
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nkat

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he's gotta have a pretty strong range pf if he's any good. I think shove on flop isn't great.
 
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I think ATo plays better to flat here. I'd rather 3-bet something you can't profitably call, like weak suited aces. This is BB vs BTN/SB, so A10o has their range crushed. Against their continuing range though, your equity plummets.

As played, you have to ship the flop. Your range has a lot more Kx in it than he does, and even if he does call you have equity. Nh. He only needs to fold like 55% of the time here for it to be breakeven, and that's assuming you have 0 equity when called.

Why are you not topping off?
 
Beanfacekilla

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This was a $1/$3 live game I played at a casino with a $200 max buy-in. We were playing short-handed (only 5 players on the table) and the villain was a typical live reg (not great but not awful either). I thought I'd make a move on him and it went as follows:

Hero (BB) has $180
Villain (BTN) has $500
Villain 2 (SB) has $500

Hero is dealt ATo in BB
SB posts $1, Hero posts $3

Folds to BTN who raises to $12
SB calls $11
Hero (BB) re-raises to $50
BTN calls $38
SB folds

$101 in pot (2 players)
Flop shows K83 rainbow

Hero shoves ALL-IN for $130

What do you think about the way I played this hand? Clever and creative, or spewy and awful?


I don't mind it one bit. As played, of course you ship flop. The flop is very dry. V probably mucks a fair amount of hands postflop here.


What is your image like on the table?

Do you think that V is aware of short handed dynamics? Does he adjust his ranges, and realize hands that are meh on a full table, are premiums 5-handed?

We must also beware that V is pretty deep. Most recreational players are not strong DS players, hence, they make shitty calls. I could see dude snapping with 9-9~J-J (or much worse) here, because he can afford it. Many players get deep stacks because they are a luckbox, and keep making hero calls, sucking out, etc, or just happen to be right in one of the bazillion hands they call down light (or lucky, whatever).

If he is not horrible, but not great either, he may find a fold here. But his call of the 3b alone tells me he is too sticky (or maybe he has a great hand, and he is content to let you hang yourself). There isn't much IO for him here. Against an unknown live player, he should probably be folding a ton of hands to this 3b (if you're an unknown to him). I feel like this guy has a medium or high PP for some reason.

Most live players just hardly ever 3b light, or get out of line. Most are very predictable. Like he should have a damn good hand here to be calling a $50 3b with no implied-odds, or a great read, both of which aren't good for you. I mean you have $130 back. He will be getting 2.4:1 odds OTF. Even if he's a drooler, he has to know you are shipping the flop when he calls the 3b. But will he fold a PP here OTF? That is the real question. Fold equity is probaby lower because of V being deep, and your stack size and pot odds for V.

It's high variance. If you run into it here (like V snap calls with AK), it can be painful, and take you off your A-game.

If your mental game is solid, and you can play well after (if you lose, get powned, etc), then you can use this hand to your advantage in the near future (if you get caught). Even if we get it in bad, and suckout, we can use that to our advantage also, moo-aaa-ha-ha.


But, these kind of plays are risky at live tables. Whatever you do, don't try this on a calling station. There are a few of them out there at 1/2-1/3.

The point being, I don't think we have to take risks like this to win pots. It is a nice play, don't get me wrong, but very risky. Your opponents are just waiting to give their money away. There are much easier/low variance ways to get it.

I personally hate blowing up in spots like these, because it's tough for me to still play like nothing happened. I do a fair amount of bluffing, but mostly IP, and I try to pick players who will fold postflop with less than TP.


Food for thought.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Minh, just for reference asking for $20 to top off every hand when you lose a small pot is obnoxious for you and everyone else. When you can't simply click a button to add-on, it's usually customary to never reload less than say $60 at 1/2 or else it's just way too often for everyone involved.
 
Trabendo_daze

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For your hand OP, this is fine but it has to be placed within the context of a larger plan. If you're going to do this stuff make sure you get thin value and 3bet for value thinner when you have the opportunity. Also keep this hand in mind in future interactions with villain. As BFK said this play is highly villain dependent and might be bad against certain people but might be good against others. Anyways non-standard plays like this are fine but just use this history later on or else it can be risk for nothing.
 
Trabendo_daze

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BFK is right though if you want to crush 1/2 at $25/hr these plays aren't necessarily obligatory to get there. However if you want to move up, improve your game, and experiment, mixing them in from time to time isn't bad
 
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MinhANguyen

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Minh, just for reference asking for $20 to top off every hand when you lose a small pot is obnoxious for you and everyone else. When you can't simply click a button to add-on, it's usually customary to never reload less than say $60 at 1/2 or else it's just way too often for everyone involved.

Sorry, did not see max buy-in of $200. I only saw the 1/3 part.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Minh, just for reference asking for $20 to top off every hand when you lose a small pot is obnoxious for you and everyone else. When you can't simply click a button to add-on, it's usually customary to never reload less than say $60 at 1/2 or else it's just way too often for everyone involved.



When I buy in, I get $200 in red ($5) chips, a $100 in green ($25) chips. This way, I just pull some chips out and top off. This solves the problem of having to ask for chips to top off.
 
Trabendo_daze

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at BFK I'm pretty sure it's a uncommon to be allowed to take like chips from your pocket and put them on the table...but I'm not that experienced so idk
 
Beanfacekilla

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at BFK I'm pretty sure it's a uncommon to be allowed to take like chips from your pocket and put them on the table...but I'm not that experienced so idk


I do it all the time. The floor approached me about a week or two ago, they said that people have complained that I'm taking chips off the table. I explained that I top off, no big deal. However, now I tell the dealer and the players near me what I'm doing when I top off. I will even count up my chips and say something like "I am topping off to $200, I have $181 now."

I've never gone south in my life. I wonder who it was that complained. Sometimes, I take chips out, and add a green to make exactly $200. If they were really watching me that close, it would be easy to see that.
 
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"Sometimes, I take chips out, and add a green to make exactly $200. If they were really watching me that close, it would be easy to see that."

yeah i wouldn't do that in a casino, What's the point? Just play with a little over 200...
 
Beanfacekilla

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"Sometimes, I take chips out, and add a green to make exactly $200. If they were really watching me that close, it would be easy to see that."

yeah i wouldn't do that in a casino, What's the point? Just play with a little over 200...


It has to be $200, not one dollar more. There is a bad beat jackpot, it could ruin the bad beat (not like I care, stupid waste of perfectly good extra dollar in raked pots). If I ever ruined the BBJ, I would get lynched by an angry mob of gamboolers.


You are only allowed to top off to $200. Not $205, etc.


I top off when I get to $180 or less. I want to get every dollar I can when I whack someone for stacks.
 
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ah ic.. well if they have a rule like that.. then yeah, go ahead! Kinda lame when max buy in is 100bb live.. oh well.

Dont understand how that ruins bbj though??
 
Beanfacekilla

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ah ic.. well if they have a rule like that.. then yeah, go ahead! Kinda lame when max buy in is 100bb live.. oh well.

Dont understand how that ruins bbj though??


Anything that's not done by the book could cause the BBJ to not be paid. If the button was in the wrong place (maybe, depends on more details), someone dealt in that shouldn't have been (new player on table, coming in and paying SB or something), etc. All I know is the max buy in is $200, and we can't go over that ever.

Would anyone notice if I topped off to $210? Maybe not.... but they check security footage if the BBJ gets hit, and they could deny it for something like that. Slim chance of BBJ anyways. But I do everything by the book. I never add more than I'm supposed to. This is why I was so surprised that someone complained to the floor that I was going south. I've never done that.


FWIW, the BBJ is the dumbest thing ever. People have yelled at me for playing too aggro. They have said things like "you are ruining the bad beat!" This is when I would 3b or 4b pre, and these fools would get all butt-hurt they had to fold their pocket 4's. They just want to see every flop for $2. They are dead serious. Super mad, legitimately feeling like they have a real shot if they just see that flop with their PP (bad beat is quads over quads, must have PP in hand).

I have said before when they bitched at me about the BBJ "yo, I don't give a **** about the bad beat. It's a waste of rake. You know it's like 1 in 1.5 million odds to hit that right?"

That did not go over well. It was regarded as blasphemous by most of my table mates.


Now, I say things like "this is it! The bad beat is gonna happen tonight!" Or "Get your I.D.s out! It's coming out right now!" This has helped me fit in much better.



Side story:

I was at Greektown, playing $1/$2. I had $800 or so in chips. The guy to my left had $700 or so. I opened to $25 pre, and the guy on my left folded (he was racking up his chips, getting ready to leave). The BB ended up flatting. We play HU pot. Flop K-K-6r. BB C/C my c-bet. Turn 6. Checks through. River whatever. Dude bets, I fold. He shows KK for quads. The guy on my left folded 6-6. We would have hit the bad beat.

The guy that folded his 6-6 told another friend of mine that he cried on the way home, like real tears. At that time, BBJ was 100k at Greektown (always smaller than Motor City). He told the table we would have hit the BBJ. They were not pleased. Edit: they were mostly mad at the dude for folding pre, not me...

I told him he should have called pre. Great spot to setmine. Whatever.

I honestly didn't lose any sleep over that. I couldn't possibly care any less. If I ever hit a BBJ, cool, but I don't expect it to ever happen.
 
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