$20 PLO 6-max: Flop a weak flush, SPR = 3, get shoved on.

c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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This is a 10-game hand, and villain just sat down a few orbits ago. He's stolen my blinds at least twice on the button so he at least seems somewhat aggressive.

Make it obvious for me, PLO is probably my worst game.

full tilt poker $0.10/$0.20 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Hero (SB): $19.80
BB: $23.83
UTG: $22.95
MP: $33.59
CO: $22.38
BTN: $21.38

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is SB with 6:diamond: T:diamond: T:heart: 9:club:
2 folds, CO calls $0.20, BTN raises to $0.90, Hero raises to $3.10, 2 folds, BTN calls $2.20

Flop: ($6.60) 5:diamond: 7:diamond: 8:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $6.60, BTN raises to $18.28 all in, Hero is getting 3.1:1 and is kinda lost.
 
brank

brank

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Unfortunately PLO is pretty much my worst game as well, except maybe Badugi... I was playing this table today too, must have just missed you.

I say what I think and then be told how wrong I am:)

So I guess your 3 betting for value vs a suspected steal attempt. The only thing I find with a hand like this is that there are not many good flops for it. Sets are vulnerable unless the flop is super dry and flushes/straights will be hard to play unless we flop the top end of the st8.


Having said that I think folding might be too weak. Does that mean flat calling is the right play? Did I mention I suck at PLO?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Having said that I think folding might be too weak. Does that mean flat calling is the right play? Did I mention I suck at PLO?
Its not a value 3-bet, its to gain initiative.

I think most PLO players will put me on aces or kings when I 3-bet. Therefore, they will look to make really big hands that don't happen often, and they'll fold often. And obviously folding often isn't a great strategy if you keep putting in a big chunk of your stack.
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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Icky spot.

This is gonna depend on how often you think villain does this with 96xx or a set - villain never does this with any worse imo. Obviously a straight has like zero equity against us, while a set has ~3:1 equity. If he shoves with those plus ace high and king high flushes, then we're a little worse than 2:1 to win. It's probably less than that though because maybe he doesn't shove all his straights or sets, so maybe 1:1 then? So it's still a call probably.

I wanna say we shouldn't pot this flop but that may be a results oriented answer.

I think the 3-bet pre is fine, going up against a frequent stealer it should be fine, and as you say you should get a lot of folds on the flop if he does call.
 
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I dunno. I cant see st8's or sets shoving here. It not like in HE where you wanna get the money in on a flop like this with a set or a st8. I think the only thing calling a shove/shoving is gonna be the nuts or something close to it, unless they're really bad or you have a maniac table image which doesnt seem to be the case in this hand.
 
cjatud2012

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Well villain is said to be pretty aggressive, so maybe he won't shove his straights because they don't have any backdoor equity, but 88xx at least has outs to a full house, so that alone may be enough for us to call.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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To put this in perspective, if villain only shoves flushes, we have the 3.1:1 equity we need to make this call break even.

In order for this to be a fold, villain has to only be shoving good flushes, and never be bluffing. I'm not sure I can put villain at that level.
 
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I really don't think villain ever has a worse flush here. Best case scenario is like a set with a blocker to the nut flush like Ad88x. Incidentally, I don't like 3-betting in the SB unless you think he's folding preflop a lot. Initiative is not nearly as valuable in PLO as position. To wit: You flopped a monster, get shoved on and you're lost. Any decent PLO player who puts you on AAxx knows they just have to flop a pair with any kind of draw and you'll be hard-pressed to win at showdown or continue to a raise.

I would flat with everything, including AAKK ds.
 
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OK, if I am in villains shoes. I am shoving the flop almost always if you have not had a very liberal 3 bet range. You have AAxx so often and you really just cant call with that here hence why shoving the board with any 4 would be profitable. Now that is if villain is a good thinking aggressive player.

For an aggressive average player is shoving with straights and a ton of sets here and definitely lower flushes. I think a hand he shoves less with is high nut type flushes because there is no point because you fold so much.


I call, not fist pumping but I call. He is aggressive, he will do this with sets and bluffs and lower flushes. although there are only like 3 lower flush possibilities I still think his range is wide enough.

Will you are right in some senses baudib, to flat AAKK ds preflop from the sb is absolutely insane. Firstly you dont want to play oop and secondly you wont be the aggressive causing a lot worse situations in the long run.
 
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baudib1

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no one folds to 3-bets IP pre IME; they fold when you hit your set after 3-betting but you never fold when they hit theirs.
 
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