$20 NLHE Full Ring: good fold? fish shoving

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 47/21/3.2

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $22.42 (112.1 bb)
BB: $23.08 (115.4 bb)
UTG+1: $20 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $18.14 (90.7 bb)
MP1: $20.17 (100.9 bb)
MP2: $12.23 (61.2 bb)
Hero (MP3): $38.59 (193 bb)
CO: $18.80 (94 bb)
BTN: $31.06 (155.3 bb)VPIP: 47, PFR: 21, 3B: 2, AF: 3.2, hands: 131

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A:heart: K:diamond:
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.52, CO folds, BTN calls $0.52, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.34) 5:diamond: A:club: 5:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $1, BTN calls $1

Turn: ($3.34) 9:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.67, BTN calls $1.67

River: ($6.68) 2:club: (2 players)
Hero bets $3.34, BTN raises to $27.87, Hero folds

Results: $13.36 pot ($0.66 rake)
Final Board: 5:diamond: A:club: 5:heart: 9:heart: 2:club:
Hero mucked A:heart: K:diamond: and lost (-$6.53 net)
BTN mucked and won $12.70 ($6.17 net)

Villian did show....

I don't think you can make that call, no matter how much you might want to given your stats and read on the guy. He seems to be a bit of a calling station and with the way he called through this hand, you don't have much to go on.

My guesses at his holdings: A2o, A5o, A9o, or TT, JJ, QQ, KK?

The fold is good,i would say had A5,A9 or maybe 99

Nice fold. Good luck guy.

Yeah, you need to fold. Why such a small raise size pre? If you have a fish calling with half his hands, pump up the sizing. The fish won't change his calling range, and you'll discourage less action from the regs. I'll often pump up my open sizing to 4-5x+ when there's a whale / bad fish at the table.

I normally wouldn't post a hand like this, its an obvious fold, I actually only posted this one because the fish didn't believe I had folded AK. Villain asked me my hand so I told him and he stated "you must have had the ace of hearts" implying he had the other two AA. He was chuntering for a while about his bad luck at not getting paid off and not believing anyone could fold AK in that spot.
So I posted the hand during game play and put the link in the chat window for him. I don't think I've done that before and I probably won't again, it was a bit of a one off for a weekend recreational player.
I take the point about bet sizing with this sort of fish...

Hi Bruce. I thought he might have had A 5 seeing as he is looser than me!! As you say its was a defo fold. What did he say he had? Did he say 2 aces or did you think that? I just say that as he might have been bulls**tting, dont know though. At least you didn't fall for his stupid bet, if he was wanting to get paid he should have raised what $9.50 - $10.00, anyway gl to you in the future and maybe you'll see him again and take him down!!

Cheers Marc

Wait, you actually gave villain a link to this thread???

Anyway, he played it well. Brilliant sizing on the river play. As long as he keeps that up he'll be going places. You should've called off with your ace because what if he was bluffing.

Figaroo2 said:

I normally wouldn't post a hand like this, its an obvious fold, I actually only posted this one because the fish didn't believe I had folded AK. Villain asked me my hand so I told him and he stated "you must have had the ace of hearts" implying he had the other two AA. He was chuntering for a while about his bad luck at not getting paid off and not believing anyone could fold AK in that spot.
So I posted the hand during game play and put the link in the chat window for him. I don't think I've done that before and I probably won't again, it was a bit of a one off for a weekend recreational player.
I take the point about bet sizing with this sort of fish...

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Have to say... Good luck

Good fold here.

When fish raises that big, we know he has the goods.

Thats why sometimes, fishes are hard to read because of those weird moves.

I agree that you can't call that huge river raise. I agree with JohnA about the small raise preflop. Along with increasing value against a bad calling station, a larger raise (4bb - 5bb) will further define your opponents hand range. Other than the preflop raise, I think you played the hand well. Since you raised preflop and continued to show strength throughout the hand, your opponent should be able to give you credit for at least an ace. In spite of this, he still did a huge check-raise on the river. I would definitely think he had my ace beat so I think you made the right decision.

hffjd2000 said:

Good fold here.

When fish raises that big, we know he has the goods.

Thats why sometimes, fishes are hard to read because of those weird moves.

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Exactly!

Flayst said:

I don't think you can make that call, no matter how much you might want to given your stats and read on the guy. He seems to be a bit of a calling station and with the way he called through this hand, you don't have much to go on.

My guesses at his holdings: A2o, A5o, A9o, or TT, JJ, QQ, KK?

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I dont think anyone would ever shove the river with TT, JJ or QQ, even fish.
He could have had 3h 4h though?

Figaroo2 said:

he stated "you must have had the ace of hearts" implying he had the other two AA. He was chuntering for a while about his bad luck at not getting paid off and not believing anyone could fold AK in that spot.

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That was a stupid move by the villain there shoving that many chips on the river expecting to get paid. No wonder ever keeps complaining about never getting paid when he has the goods.

The guy has no idea about good bet sizing and how important it plays a role in value extraction. Had he made a decent size raise on the river he sure was getting paid in most cases. Nevertheless you made a decent fold - even if this was a bluff you had to fold to the crazy raise.

Also you should file a report in your mind about what he said afterwards. He says a hand like should never be folding in that spot. I mean if a guy thinks like that then he is a calling station and does not exactly know when he has the second best hand or does not mind paying off when he thinks he has a strong holding. We can use this to your advantage later on and make bigger value bets against him in certain spots. :icon_stud

All we had here was 2 pair which is hardly a strong enough hand to risk our whole stack. If he thinks that is strong then he will most likely pay us off if he has three of a kind or straight and we got him beat. Such mental notes are key to exploiting the weakness of your opponents. So good observation and sharp memory goes a long way in achieving best results this game. :icon_fara

Raise more pre we are going to be OOP a lot of the time.

Raise more on the turn because we have a nice draw to go with the hand.

River... I guess is a fold but with 47vpip who knows what he has, he prolly don't even know lolz.

......

Could we have just checked the flop and turn for some pot control? and call the river bet? would that be a better line with a paired board and hope Weaker aces call us. and medium to KK pocket pairs pay us.