€20 NLHE 6-max: Turn decision in 4 bet pot.

Thinker_145

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iPoker - €0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 32 BB (VPIP: 43.20, PFR: 8.93, 3Bet Preflop: 5.41, hands: 170)
SB: 220.9 BB (VPIP: 20.75, PFR: 15.25, 3Bet Preflop: 6.68, Hands: 3,484)
BB: 114.6 BB (VPIP: 41.33, PFR: 9.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 76)
Hero (UTG): 164 BB
CO: 74.75 BB (VPIP: 63.08, PFR: 12.23, 3Bet Preflop: 3.42, Hands: 288)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: A:heart:

Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero raises to 28 BB, SB calls 19 BB

Flop: (57 BB, 2 players) 4:club: 9:diamond: J:club:
SB checks, Hero bets 30 BB, SB calls 30 BB

Turn: (117 BB, 2 players) T:club:
SB checks,

So what's going on here? My opponent is a solid reg but you know one of those players who don't let go of hands very easily. However this is a 4 bet pot he isn't sticky for no reason I believe.

That is a bad turn card but then again realistically only AKs got there can't imagine him having any other hand where we beat him on flop and not on turn. He could have QQ/KK with a flush draw and a check could be disastrous there. I suppose pay off JJ/AKs and just bet bet? QQ/KK with flush draw might actually shove back so our bet has to be 100% committed.
 
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Mitchel Cornodelli

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i would open to 4/3x utg preflop, 4 bet is good, bet 45-55bb on flop, on the turn you have less than a single pot bet left, so probably just shove turn
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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i would open to 4/3x utg preflop, 4 bet is good, bet 45-55bb on flop, on the turn you have less than a single pot bet left, so probably just shove turn
2.5x is my standard open from any position any hand.
 
Aces2w1n

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At this stage you just answered ur own question. Solid reg.

If you bet hes simply throwing away everything you beat and continuing with what crushes u

Check the turn and call river

Dont feel bad about not getting 3 streets of value it just rarely happens against these guys.
 
IPlay

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This guy has JJ, QQ or KK maybe AcKc here almost always judging from his stats and that he 3 bet called your utg 4 bet. You don't want to give a free card to QQ that is now open ended and you also dont want to give a free card ti QcQx, KcKx. Bet 65bb/call a jam but hopefully he calls and you can x back all rivers.
 
weldphaser

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This guy has JJ, QQ or KK maybe AcKc here almost always judging from his stats and that he 3 bet called your utg 4 bet. You don't want to give a free card to QQ that is now open ended and you also dont want to give a free card ti QcQx, KcKx. Bet 65bb/call a jam but hopefully he calls and you can x back all rivers.

i usually dont completely agree with you play, bu you hit it there.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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There's another line other than bet/call?
 
John A

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There's another line other than bet/call?

Yes, it's check turn, and call river. You're behind his turn calling range. So bet/calling is pretty bad.
 
John A

John A

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This guy has JJ, QQ or KK maybe AcKc here almost always judging from his stats and that he 3 bet called your utg 4 bet. You don't want to give a free card to QQ that is now open ended and you also dont want to give a free card ti QcQx, KcKx. Bet 65bb/call a jam but hopefully he calls and you can x back all rivers.

No. And TT also calls a 4-bet this deep and peels that flop.

You guys need to bust out an equity calc... I'm too lazy, but I know you're behind at this point against that range w/ TT.
 
IPlay

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but is this guy 3 betting 1010 vs Heros UTG raise?
 
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MinhANguyen

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Yes, it's check turn, and call river. You're behind his turn calling range. So bet/calling is pretty bad.

+1, although I don't completely agree with us being behind his turn calling range completely. We are pretty much always behind his turn check jamming range though. QQ/KK, especially with a club, are almost always taking another card off. When he flats the 4-bet OOP, most of the time he has QQ/KK/AKcc. I think most people just fold JJ/1010 to a 4-bet despite being this deep. Whenever someone flatted my 4-bet, it was most of the time QQ, sometimes AK and maybe once KK.
 
John A

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+1, although I don't completely agree with us being behind his turn calling range completely. We are pretty much always behind his turn check jamming range though. QQ/KK, especially with a club, are almost always taking another card off. When he flats the 4-bet OOP, most of the time he has QQ/KK/AKcc. I think most people just fold JJ/1010 to a 4-bet despite being this deep. Whenever someone flatted my 4-bet, it was most of the time QQ, sometimes AK and maybe once KK.

Yeah, that's not true on the TT/JJ thing. Again, especially considering the read. Shoot, I've seen people call tons worse not deep w/ 4-bets (regs). But regardless, yes, it's squarely in his range and you are behind his calling range, not just his jamming range. Punch it up... crud, ok I will.

Ace Poker Drills Poker Equity Calculator
Board: 4c 9d Jc Tc

Equity Win Tie Hand Range
47.3295% 45.3409% 1.9886% [ AdAh ]
52.6705% 50.6818% 1.9886% [ TT+(100), AcKc(100) ]

What hand is he folding if OP bets the turn?
 
Figaroo2

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I'm pot controlling here all day everyday on this turn. We only have an overpair and a decent reg is hanging around and a dangerous card hits the turn.
If you bet here you are approaching pot commitment and we have no nutted river cards for us either
The other day I had a reg flat a 4 bet in the SB with 44, so don't assume TT isnt there. And the fkr got there to stack me.
 
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John A

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I'm pot controlling here all day everyday on this turn. We only have an overpair and a decent reg is hanging around and a dangerous card hits the turn.
If you bet here you are approaching pot commitment and we have no nutted river cards for us either
The other day I had a reg flat a 4 bet in the SB with 44, so don't assume TT isnt there. And the fkr got there to stack me.

Haha... I was sweating you when that happened. It was a little funny... just a little. :) :)

Usually I'm good luck... but apparently not that day! :)
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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What hand is he folding if OP bets the turn?
This question is pretty condescending. It's pretty clear that we think villian's range is not what you posted, not that we're turning aced into a bluff.
 
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walleye

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My two cents and it literally might be worth that, is that he has QQ/KK, really seems unlikely AK suited.
 
Trabendo_daze

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FWIW, I'm with John, I think his calling range I stronger than AA here. I also don't think you were condescending John, that is a standard (the most standard?!?!?) question to ask here
 
John A

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This question is pretty condescending. It's pretty clear that we think villian's range is not what you posted, not that we're turning aced into a bluff.

Project much? <--- now that was condescending.

Why do you have to start into it w/ everyone? Just post advice or don't.

That was a serious question I asked. If that's not the range he has, then what does he have? JJ+/AKc only? Because I'm not even sure we can take AcQc out, but I am. I was just sweating Fig the other day and a guy called a 4-bet in the SB w/ 44 at 20nl (and this was a fairly tight reg if memory serves). I don't play those stakes, but I've sweat plenty of members on here at 10 - 50nl.
 
IPlay

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If he is peeling flop with TT here, wouldn't he peel one off with AcKx type hands which would also be in his turn calling range?
 
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Thinker_145

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I bet 2/3 pot and Villain folded. Just surprised he came all this way and still folded on that board.

Maybe I lost value by betting but I could not stomach losing to some ridiculous 4 to a flush hand on the river.

I intentionally bet lower than what I normally do on the flop to make it seem like I am weaker than I am.

Maybe he folded QQ without flush draw and even with a flush draw its not much of a hand if I have KcKx or AcAx.
 
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