£20 NLHE 6-max: Top 2 pair facing 3 bet on the flop.

Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
iPoker - £0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 170.95 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, hands: 9)
CO: 102.35 BB (VPIP: 55.98, PFR: 5.62, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 563)
BTN: 320.35 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
SB: 116.85 BB (VPIP: 21.62, PFR: 15.20, 3Bet Preflop: 1.77, Hands: 304)
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 81.55 BB (VPIP: 22.83, PFR: 15.22, 3Bet Preflop: 2.63, Hands: 94)

6 players post ante of 0.2 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.7 BB) Hero has T:spade: 9:diamond:

fold, fold, CO calls 1 BB, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero checks

Flop: (4.2 BB, 3 players) T:club: 9:heart: 7:diamond:
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 4.2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 18.45 BB, CO raises to 32.7 BB, Hero ?

Pretty sure I am not priced in to call for a 4 outer so what do you normally do against an opponent like this? Shove and call it a cooler if he has a straight? He is a fish for sure but not an overly aggressive one that's why I am worried here.
 
S

ScottishMatt

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Total posts
2,394
Chips
0
If he isn't an overly aggressive fish then you lead flop and avoid this mess. As played I call and re-evaluate turn. If he has 77 and the turn is an 8/J you can save money but straights seem a high possibility here. If he is just making some dumb play with air he may slow down on the turn and you can get to showdown.

I've noticed in the last few HH you appear to be taking what I view as less than optimal lines, X/R here for example instead of donking. You may be able to avoid many troubling decisions if you focus on planning your line from the start of the hand, what may appear optimal in an isolated street may not be optimal for maximising value vs your opponents entire range throughout all streets.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
It's such a wet board I took the check raise line so if my opponent does have a draw and doesn't get there OTT then I won't have any tough decision OTR. I also didn't buy the pot bet OTF as being particularly strong because with fishes its usually not strong.

I am up against a fish who will never be folding any 8x hand here before the river so thats also why I took this line to get max value from his draws.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
S

ScottishMatt

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Total posts
2,394
Chips
0
But you said he isn't overly aggressive. Preflop stats don't tell the whole tale but I wouldn't be surprised to have him check back straight draws here a decent % of the time.

In getting max value from draws you lower SPR and maneuver yourself into a tough spot because on this board your hand is far from the nuts and he can have all combos that beat you. If that is the most profitable tradeoff in your eyes then so be it, I'd rather donk it up though.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
So in your opinion we should call the 3 bet and almost never fold?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
Not overly aggressive yes but a fish nevertheless I don't think he would slow down here with T7 or maybe even 97. He could also possibly make this move with T8.

Also consider that he limps almost every hand so he could have an over pair as well here.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
S

ScottishMatt

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Total posts
2,394
Chips
0
The problem with other 2P hands is that you block them. T8 is probably just a call by him unless he is an aggrospewtard. Same thing with an overpair. If he is bad enough to try and GII on a flop like this with an OP after limping in pre then this is deffo a stackoff.

I have made folds in situations like this before but that is in the moment taking into account meta game, timings, history etc.

Just donk and avoid this whole problem IMO lol.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
I went through a whole spazzing out with 2p. Don't overestimate them

If it was a 2 instead of the 7 we'd be pretty happy. But it isn't.

I've never had a happy memory with well connected boards like this or JT and board is JT9... only time i love it is if u make a str on turn and have the nuts with no flush possibilities.... So passive is the key in MW pot i believe and just pot control and make value of weaker hands.


The only time I'm happy with these hands actually is against a nit who only plays KK AA.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Total posts
7,363
Awards
16
Chips
13
If you aren't willing to gii in the flop then don't raise to 18bb...simple as.
Now he has raised If you think he can do this with AT, over pairs, or combo draws just gii and hope, there is still plenty he could be over valuing .
We don't really want to be gambling like this with fish.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
The only thing else ill add if u do keep pot minimal and hit a T u will get paid off
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
Always leading this pot when it is limped multiway and like fig said, don't make such huge bet sizings post flop(Which I notice you do alot from other threads) with hands you don't want to get it in with. I don't mind just getting it in on this flop, I would personally call and see a turn card. Do you think he is raising hands like 108, 98, QT? He could be raising worse two pairs like 107, 97, hell even TPTK with A10. This player is just too fishy to fold and if he has better then flopped Top Two pair then good for him.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
I shoved and was called by 68. I turned a boat and won but didn't feel too good about it as I hate getting my money in so bad. Obviously I'll rather win the actual hand as losing would make me feel much worse. But still I greatly value my all in EV curve.

In this case I am almost never just folding it and I am pretty sure a turn check raise would have stacked off the fish here. So I suppose not to feel that bad since I was going to win this hand in any case.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
Top