$20 NLHE 6-max: OESD vs 2 fish

Hey guys, i played this hand today.


Entraction - €0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (UTG): €22.18
MP: €19.71
CO: €12.15
BTN: €20.00
SB: €9.20
BB: €15.25

SB posts SB €0.10, BB posts BB €0.20

Pre Flop: (€0.30) Hero has T:diamond: J:diamond:

Hero raises to €0.70, fold, CO calls €0.70, fold, fold, BB calls €0.50

Flop: (€2.20, 3 players) 9:spade: 3:spade: 8:heart:
BB bets €0.20, Hero calls €0.20, CO raises to €11.45 and is all-in, BB calls €11.25, Hero ?

here is the info i have on the guys, fish who shoves plays 65/20 total AF 3.86 and the fish who calls plays 76/7 total AF 2.29. 46 hands on both, thats how much i played at the table, no other reads than this, i only played 1 hand before, and i got it on the flop with a c-bet. i have to call 11.20$ to win about 25$.

btw BB has 3.1$ left after he called.

I don't like opening UTG with this hand when I have aggressive donk's on both sides of me, who also have less than 75% full stacks. Just doesn't seem like it can ever be profitable.

On the flop I'm probably ignoring the BB's donk min-bet and taking my standard c-bet line.

After that I don't know. God only knows with these fish, but I'd have to assume you're behind. At this point you should just call, because I don't think the hand was well played, and by getting a little lucky you can win the pot and move on and promise yourself never to take this line again.

Im pretty sure given the action we're not too good here.

Besides its very likey one of these guys are drawing to a flush so even if our straight gets there it might not be good.

Id say easy fold.

Likminutz said:

I don't like opening UTG with this hand when I have aggressive donk's on both sides of me, who also have less than 75% full stacks. Just doesn't seem like it can ever be profitable.

On the flop I'm probably ignoring the BB's donk min-bet and taking my standard c-bet line.

After that I don't know. God only knows with these fish, but I'd have to assume you're behind. At this point you should just call, because I don't think the hand was well played, and by getting a little lucky you can win the pot and move on and promise yourself never to take this line again.

Click to expand...

I really don't think JTs is a bad raise UTG regardless of where the fish are at the table. Seems like a great hand to open with. I would also like some imput on this from the other members of CC reading this post. Do you think raising JTs UTG is bad given the table dynamics?

forsakenone said:

I really don't think JTs is a bad raise UTG regardless of where the fish are at the table. Seems like a great hand to open with. I would also like some imput on this from the other members of CC reading this post. Do you think raising JTs UTG is bad given the table dynamics?

Click to expand...

I know you're looking for opinions from other members, but I think this hand works best in situations where you either have good implied odds, and/or position and fold equity.

For implied odds, I'm not saying these guys aren't going to pay you off if you hit a hand. But neither villian has a stack worth 100 BB's and I'm making the assumption that its harder to stack one player than it is two (I've been wrong before).

As for fold equity and position... you don't have position. Fold equity can be debated because I wasn't playing at the table. It is possible that they were the only two players calling raises preflop and were folding 100% of flop cbets... in which case you might be able to convince me.

Likminutz said:

I don't like opening UTG with this hand when I have aggressive donk's on both sides of me, who also have less than 75% full stacks. Just doesn't seem like it can ever be profitable.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Ill open JTs sometimes utg but not when there's a maniac who has position on me because he'll either 3bet(to which i have to fold) or call and if I miss a flop I can't count that he'll fold to a cbet.

As played just fold.

Everyone that said fold just said it on a feeling.
Everyone that said call just said it on a feeling.

We have pokerstove people, come on. I put a little range here, both for shoving and calling as I don't think they differ much. If anything they're probably wider, but not as wide as we need probably.


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.721% 23.06% 00.66% 1354592 38578.33 { JdTd }
Hand 1: 38.139% 37.59% 00.55% 2207895 32075.83 { 88+, 33, AsKs, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, A9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, KsQs, KsJs, KsTs, K9s, Ks8s, Ks7s, Ks6s, Ks5s, Ks4s, Ks3s, Ks2s, QsJs, QsTs, Q9s, Qs8s, Qs7s, Qs6s, Qs5s, Qs4s, Qs3s, Qs2s, JsTs, J9s, Js8s, Js7s, Js6s, Js5s, Js4s, Js3s, Js2s, T9s, Ts8s, Ts7s, Ts6s, Ts5s, Ts4s, Ts3s, Ts2s, 98s }
Hand 2: 38.139% 37.59% 00.55% 2207895 32075.83 { 88+, 33, AsKs, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, A9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, KsQs, KsJs, KsTs, K9s, Ks8s, Ks7s, Ks6s, Ks5s, Ks4s, Ks3s, Ks2s, QsJs, QsTs, Q9s, Qs8s, Qs7s, Qs6s, Qs5s, Qs4s, Qs3s, Qs2s, JsTs, J9s, Js8s, Js7s, Js6s, Js5s, Js4s, Js3s, Js2s, T9s, Ts8s, Ts7s, Ts6s, Ts5s, Ts4s, Ts3s, Ts2s, 98s }

Easy fold, post flop. I don't totally dislike the raise pre. I mean, it does have the royal flush draw afterall. I know it's a bad play, but I'll usually at least limp with J10 suited. I've folded J10 suited twice before pre, and would have hit my royal, lol.

Post flop, though.. easy fold. You have Jack high.. on the open ended straight draw.. and there is a spade flush draw on the board. You don't have much in the pot.. if you called and lost, you just lost half your stack. The villain could be trying to semi-bluff with a the nut flush draw, which would only give you 10 outs at the most (Q, J, 10, or 7.. as long as it's not a spade).

If the villain had a low pp (which I don't think he would have here) then you would have more outs..

But my guess that he either has the nut flush draw and REALLY wants that pot, trying to push you guys out.. or hit his set of 3's, trying to push you guys off the straight and flush draws.

Anyway, like I said, the amount in the pot is not worth calling the shove post flop on a straight draw.