£20 NLHE 6-max: KK facing river shove in 3 bet pot.

Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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£20 NLHE 6-max: KK facing river shove in 3 bet pot.

iPoker - £0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 214.5 BB (VPIP: 28.21, PFR: 18.80, 3Bet Preflop: 7.50, hands: 117)
SB: 102.15 BB (VPIP: 19.38, PFR: 12.66, 3Bet Preflop: 3.90, Hands: 5,594)
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 107.5 BB (VPIP: 35.29, PFR: 23.53, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
CO: 74.05 BB (VPIP: 81.82, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 8.00, Hands: 44)

5 players post ante of 0.2 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has K:heart: K:spade:

fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 10.5 BB, BTN calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) 6:spade: T:club: 7:club:
Hero bets 18 BB, BTN raises to 38.25 BB, Hero calls 20.25 BB

Turn: (99 BB, 2 players) 7:heart:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (99 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:
Hero checks, BTN bets 69.3 BB, Hero ?

By this time I had tanked all the streets and had a good look at all the stats and notes I could find. Here are the relevant ones. I have no specific read on the player.

FCB = 43%(3/7)
FCB in 3 bet+ pot = 0%(0/3)
Call CB in 3 bet+ pot = 100%(3/3)
[P] Called 3Bets in position {AA,KTs,T7s} (3)

So I found it interesting that he never folded in a 3 bet pot however small the sample is. However this is the first time he raised the CB so it's different I guess. It's also extremely intriguing what his pre-flop 3 bet calling range is.
 
Last edited:
IPlay

IPlay

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I think I just get it in on the flop here, but, as played, I fold river. Draws barrel the turn and is he really raising flop for value and betting river with 10x or JJ? I'm kind of tipsy though so I may be off but i don't think villain has bluffs or is value betting worse then KK.

So many hands beat you that villain calls with, TT, 77, 76s, 98s, T7s.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Snap off the river, and be happy to ship the flop. So many draws bricked, and we're super under repped.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Snap off the river, and be happy to ship the flop. So many draws bricked, and we're super under repped.

What draws bricked? What hands is villain value betting that is worse? QQ for thin value? If villain was bluffing a flush draw on flop wouldn't he jam turn and if he gives up turn isnt bluffing river terrible? We are not really underepped when we 3 bet preflop, bet and call a raise on the flop. Our hand looks like exactly jj-AA
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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What draws bricked? What hands is villain value betting that is worse? QQ for thin value? If villain was bluffing a flush draw on flop wouldn't he jam turn and if he gives up turn isnt bluffing river terrible? We are not really underepped when we 3 bet preflop, bet and call a raise on the flop. Our hand looks like exactly jj-AA
Maybe he checks turn hoping to hit the river and fold to my shove if not. But instead I checked so he shoved.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Maybe he checks turn hoping to hit the river and fold to my shove if not. But instead I checked so he shoved.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Potentially, still a pretty bad spot to bluff. Maybe he turned a boat/flopped a straight and checked turn to under rep his hand and get you to lead rivers. Maybe he had 54 and got there. Calling isnt terrible but I just dont think flush draws take this line and there isnt anythinf else you beat. QQ should be discounted by his flat pre btn vs blinds.

All in all, not shoving flop is biggest mistake in this hand.
 
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hffjd2000

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I would surely call here. I believe the board didnt help him at all.

By the action, I would say Im still ahead here.
 
c9h13no3

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You're giving villain way too much credit. He's a 28/18, and you have an overpair in a 3-bet pot. You're stacking off 98% of the time. This is not a 2% spot.
 
Thinker_145

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I called and Villain showed T7s.
 
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rlzaleski

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I definitely re-shove the flop. Only thing he could have would be two pairs or Aces to beat you there. He could also be reraising expecting you to have missed since only the 10 might help you. A draw is more likely to me, and you might as well make it a bad decision for him to call.

Getting a fold and 40 BB off him on the flop is not a bad results for Kings IMHO. More action than I get from a regular raise with a big pair a lot of time.
 
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MinhANguyen

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I probably would have went smaller on flop. As a default I half-pot/60% PSB all streets in a 3-bet pot. We are able to get away from our hand when we are most likely beat, keeps villain's range much wider, and allows stacks to get in by river. When you pretty much pot the flop and get raised small, he's basically not scared of an overpair. If he really wanted to maximize his fold equity with a huge combo draw, he'd just jam. When he checks back the board when it pairs on the turn and jams the river, he has almost zero bluffs here and was probably slowpaying a boat. Min-raise then jam turn might have looked too strong, and he probably thought you may have been able to get away from the hand. He's never jamming the river with JJ/QQ. As played, I'd have to call flop raise given such a great price, and fold river.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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I called and Villain showed T7s.

Not all that surprised, if a bluff gives up on turn I doubt they will bluff river when all draws miss. It is just a super bad line to take with a bluff so reserve calling these rivers against really bad lagtards.

Which makes his range crazy wide. All the more reason to call again in this spot next time.


It makes his preflop calling range wide but how does betting a full house make his river range wide? I strongly disagree that since he showed up with a boat here you should call rivers in future, it literally makes 0 sense and doesn't mean his river range is wide. If he jams turn or we get it in on flop his range can be wide/have bluffs, but after checking back turn and shoving river, you can eliminate bluffs often and his range is quite narrow and is going to be crushing KK.
 
Thinker_145

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Well next time against this villain I am stacking off on the flop in 3 bet pots. He can keep calling my large 3 bets with T7s I don't mind. ;)

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joe777

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Villain is just a big fish and got lucky on the flop.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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When you play weaker hands preflop, you're more likely to have weak hands postflop. True story.

Wait, that makes "0 sense".
 
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rhombus

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When you play weaker hands preflop, you're more likely to have weak hands postflop. True story.

Wait, that makes "0 sense".

may make sense to a delusional fish

for the hand I reckon villain has more value than bluffs considering when a brick hits. Either a desperate bluff 89c, AJc etc or value although saying that agree with comments about your hand being so under repped
 
IPlay

IPlay

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When you play weaker hands preflop, you're more likely to have weak hands postflop. True story.

Wait, that makes "0 sense".

We were talking about the bet on river and he bet a full house which does not mean his range on the river is wide.

Look at his line and use deduction, not many weak hands left in villains range.

Protip, postflop lines can narrow a villains range, no matter how wide a range he plays preflop. This isn't limit holdem where you just click call all 3 streets with an overpair without even thinking about it.
 
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walleye

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I have to call but I tend to be too optimistic.
 
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