$20 NLHE 6-max: Flopped bottom set:Called after donking on Flop and turn; Line Check

ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
$20 NLHE 6-max: Flopped bottom set:Called after donking on Flop and turn; Line Check

Just moved up to 20NL, so only 83 hands on UTG villain. He is playing 27/24 and 3-betting 5% of the time. Aggro Factor of 3.4 and opens UTG 13% of the time. CO is a 50/5 fish 200+bb deep, so I just called pre to set mine as both were liable to payme off if I hit. Anyways, is this the optimal way to play it or should i c/c or even go for c/r?

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10236062

UTG: $21.41 (107.1 bb)
MP: $13.82 (69.1 bb)
CO: $54.59 (273 bb)
BTN: $20.37 (101.9 bb)
SB: $10 (50 bb)
Hero (BB): $31.02 (155.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3
diamond.gif
3
spade.gif

UTG raises to $0.80, [COLOR=#00e0]MP folds[/COLOR], CO calls $0.80, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.50) 3
heart.gif
4
club.gif
K
spade.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $1.85, UTG calls $1.85, [COLOR=#00e0]CO folds[/COLOR]

Turn: ($6.20) 7
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG calls $5

River: ($16.20) Q
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG calls $13.76 and is all-in
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
I like ch/raising the flop since UTG probably cbets 100% and the fish is much more likely to call in that case.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
NH IMO.

A) I think the fish probably calls more often if there are 2 players in the pot and he's closing the action.

B) Since there are 2 callers pre, we can bet/bet/bet all the money in.

C) The fish makes UTG less likely to c-bet.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
WVHillbilly said:
I like ch/raising the flop since UTG probably cbets 100% and the fish is much more likely to call in that case.
Click to expand...

+1. Not that this line is bad or anything but it's def more profitable to c/r.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
I realize that this might be over a 20NL player's head, but what do we rep when we check/raise this board over two players? Idk, that line just seems like an awesome way to get top pair to fold.
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Total posts
3,127
Chips
0
I like c9s reasoning/line
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
I think by check/raising we almost turn our hand face up
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Problem is, its kinda tough to figure out which line is more profitable without knowing some obscure stats like:

-How often a LAG c-bets in multi-way pots (its probably high)?
-How often he folds top pair (at this level, probably unlikely)?
-What makes the fish more likely to call, closing the action or in response to a c-bet?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
Pretty much my reasoning is that even though you're turning your hand face up, they still won't be able to fold most Kx and overpairs. People just don't fold TP, especiallly at the micros.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
ChuckTs said:
+1. Not that this line is bad or anything but it's def more profitable to c/r.
Click to expand...

HU yes def

MW with the fish (or bigger fish) in the middle I like the lead because our CR might make the middle guy fold.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
I think leading is way better, mostly because people react so badly to donking.
 
Pokerstudent

Pokerstudent

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Total posts
729
Chips
0
Although I agree with c9 (What are we repping here that he has a chance to catch up on/), perhaps at the micros, advanced strategy isn't the best strategy.

Has you seen him do anything that provides more info for us on this hand? (i.e. Slowplay overs, c/r overpair) it might give us a line to better betting.
 
J

jonny roastbeef

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Total posts
4
Chips
0
$20 NLHE 6-max: Flopped bottom set:Called after donking on Flop and turn; Line Check
Just moved up to 20NL, so only 83 hands on UTG villain. He is playing 27/24 and 3-betting 5% of the time. Aggro Factor of 3.4 and opens UTG 13% of the time. CO is a 50/5 fish 200+bb deep, so I just called pre to set mine as both were liable to payme off if I hit. Anyways, is this the optimal way to play it or should i c/c or even go for c/r?
Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10236062

UTG: $21.41 (107.1 bb)
MP: $13.82 (69.1 bb)
CO: $54.59 (273 bb)
BTN: $20.37 (101.9 bb)
SB: $10 (50 bb)
Hero (BB): $31.02 (155.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3
diamond.gif
3
spade.gif

UTG raises to $0.80, [COLOR=#00e0]MP folds[/COLOR], CO calls $0.80, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.50) 3
heart.gif
4
club.gif
K
spade.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $1.85, UTG calls $1.85, [COLOR=#00e0]CO folds[/COLOR]

Turn: ($6.20) 7
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG calls $5

River: ($16.20) Q
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG calls $13.76 and is all-in
Click to expand...

imo c/r would pretty much let the guy kno wot ur holding so its not something i wud av done there

c/c is a better play overall as it keeps a bit of guess wrk involved for ur opponent, plus a the 20$ levels there are a lot of big time charlies tht dont av a solid understanding of the game and will,if u let em make lots of mistakes, sure theyre gd at the straight up poker but keep askin questionsof them and the more they'll make the wrong decision
 
W

watchtowel

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Total posts
583
Chips
0
Even at micros check raising scares a lot of hands off IMO that aren't tptk.

Is there anything wrong with flatting the flop and donking the turn. I think it gets the money into the pot without looking super strong and you may get value on the flop from both players.
 
Top