£20 NLHE 6-max: Facing 100 BB 4 bet on the flop.

Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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Well this pot sure got out of control and only I am to blame for it. But what's happened has happened what would you do now?

iPoker - £0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 132.85 BB (VPIP: 22.80, PFR: 19.95, 3Bet Preflop: 3.97, hands: 400)
UTG: 95.15 BB (VPIP: 45.12, PFR: 16.46, 3Bet Preflop: 10.53, Hands: 172)
CO: 165.45 BB (VPIP: 41.67, PFR: 21.69, 3Bet Preflop: 5.93, Hands: 777)
BTN: 190.15 BB (VPIP: 37.32, PFR: 11.53, 3Bet Preflop: 3.23, Hands: 487)
Hero (SB): 133.65 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:heart: K:spade:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (5 BB, 2 players) Q:heart: J:heart: 9:heart:
Hero bets 4 BB, BB raises to 11.9 BB, Hero raises to 32.55 BB, BB raises to 130.35 BB and is all-in, Hero :eek:
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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If we are re-raising him on the flop to 32. We are aiming to get it in by river we have made our mind up. We want stacks in.

So according to this you have to call because your play leant towards this?

If you never wanted to get it in just flat. and re-assess on the turn.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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If we are re-raising him on the flop to 32. We are aiming to get it in by river we have made our mind up. We want stacks in.

So according to this you have to call because your play leant towards this?

If you never wanted to get it in just flat. and re-assess on the turn.

You are right I just got carried away by the strength of my hand. Now I realized I most probably only have 7 outs if not dead to a runner runner or 1 outer miracle.

The question comes now what to do after making this mistake. Is our hand too strong to let go now?

The problem with my hand is that best case scenario is a flip now if we are up against a set or nut flush draw with pair. Worst case scenario is a flopped nut flush a complete nightmare.

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Figaroo2

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Yeah calling the the flop reraise looks best rather than pumping it up to 32bb.
This is actually quite a difficult spot as he could be shoving quite wide here with decent equity.

I'm pretty sure now he's shoved I don't want to see a heart in the run out unless its the ace of hearts.
As this is a single raised pot doesn't QQ JJ and possibly 99 all three bet here preflop? This reduces the chance of a set imo.
I think Ahearts x is much more likely here but he could also have T8, if he has the T of hearts he has the equity to shove.
He could have any T8 suited and decide to protect his equity. Clearly we are sunk to any ace flush, but would that hand jam here with maximum FE?
Its 100bb to win 180bb so 1.8 to 1, I make that 55% equity or above to make calling worthwhile. (if someone can confirm i'd be grateful my maths sucks)
But its really difficult to know here what cards are going to help us here to win the hand when he's so wide. If hes drawing with Ah with a pair like Ah Qx we don't need to improve, just dodge a heart and an A&Q
Using an equity calc and giving him every possible hand that I think could shove here I reckon you still come out with 50-51%
So with 1.8 to 1 (we need 55%) almost close enough to call it off.
I think I would have called this off, if nothing else I don't want to have the image of 4bet folding here on the flop otherwise guys will be jamming on you all day.
 
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MinhANguyen

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I'd flat and fold turn unimproved if he bets huge. Against a reasonable stackoff range, KK has really bad equity here. He could have a ton of two pair hands, straights, set of 9s, and flushes. Combo draws usually arent played very aggressively until around 50NL, but even against those, our equity isn't great.
 
IPlay

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Thinker..... You got to flat his 11.9 raise here. I can maybe see if you have AhAx but even then I want to see a turn card. You pretty much turned your hand into a bluff here. You have to fold at this point though, you need ~36% equity to call here and I'm not sure if you have it against this BB that seems super straightforward judging by his stats.
 
Thinker_145

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Thinker..... You got to flat his 11.9 raise here. I can maybe see if you have AhAx but even then I want to see a turn card. You pretty much turned your hand into a bluff here. You have to fold at this point though, you need ~36% equity to call here and I'm not sure if you have it against this BB that seems super straightforward judging by his stats.
But with aces we won't have straight draw, that actually probably contributed to me going bonkers in this hand. But yes I think we must find a fold here it's sad but gotta pay the price for my 3 bet mistake.
 
IPlay

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Id rather be drawing to the nuts/know my outs are live then have a gut shot.
 
Thinker_145

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Raise more pre.

This is my standard SB steal raise so making it more just for premium hands is not a good idea especially against regs.

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hffjd2000

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Since you reraise, you have to call.

Our hand is live, even underdog at this point, for the flush/straight.

Good for him if hes holding the nut draws but still, he is drawing at that point.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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I did call and Villain showed nut flush. I felt so miserable about it.
 
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If it makes you feel any better, the villain probably would've stacked off any flush here (Axs, T7s, 87s, 86s, 76s, 75s, 65s, 54s, 43s, 32s), so you had some outs against most flushes. But yeah, I agree that you should've flat-called the flop raise. Once you 3bet the flop, it's very hard for worse hands to call.
 
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MinhANguyen

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People are almost never playing back at your on a flush board at these limits. They are almost always flatting here with one pair hands, straight/flush draws, and pairs + heart draw. When you get raised, they pretty much always have a flush, straight, two pair, or set. In order, probably flush > set/straight > two pair. I'd probably fold flop or call the flop raise and chk/fold unimproved unless I have history with villain.
 
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