£20 NLHE 6-max: Is this a leak in my game or a cooler?

Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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I can pretty much never get away with a situation like this unless I am up against a nit. Just because I am UTG doesn't mean the 3 bet is really strong I have seen it plenty of times. I am not a nit UTG and I am sure the regs know that who might have analysed me.

So is this just normal and part of variance? If not what should I really do in a situation like this? 4 betting AK has a ton of fold equity which is why I love doing it. But then folding after 4 betting at 100 BB just seems wrong to me. There will be times I would have folded against QQ and AK which would be really bad.

iPoker - £0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 393.05 BB (VPIP: 20.54, PFR: 14.73, 3Bet Preflop: 4.68, hands: 2,025)
SB: 204.2 BB (VPIP: 20.22, PFR: 16.61, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 8,034)
BB: 102.4 BB (VPIP: 24.38, PFR: 15.51, 3Bet Preflop: 4.13, Hands: 2,939)
Hero (UTG): 100 BB
CO: 110.95 BB (VPIP: 25.38, PFR: 19.92, 3Bet Preflop: 6.68, Hands: 3,737)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:heart: A:heart:

Hero raises to 2.5 BB, CO raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 25.5 BB, CO raises to 110.95 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 74.5 BB

Flop: (201.5 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond: 6:club: 9:spade:

Turn: (201.5 BB, 2 players) J:club:

River: (201.5 BB, 2 players) 4:diamond:

Hero mucks K:heart: A:heart: (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 34%, Flop 14%, Turn 7%)
CO shows K:spade: K:diamond: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 66%, Flop 86%, Turn 93%)
CO wins 202.4 BB
 
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ScottishMatt

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I 4bet smaller in general. Like 2.2-2.5. Yeah just a cooler.
 
IPlay

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Standard in games like this, I hope you just didn't notice how reg infested your table is or is your whole pool like this?
 
Aces2w1n

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How is this standard?

Your UTG showing extreme strength... our villain 4bets with 6% what do you think he's shoving with? At best your hoping to chop the pot??? I don't think that's the right frame of mind.

Calling allin to chop.

Fold to his shove.

But if u guys think it's a cooler it must be... since I'm unexperienced in 20NL :)
 
Thinker_145

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Standard in games like this, I hope you just didn't notice how reg infested your table is or is your whole pool like this?

Hehe actually this was my last hand on this table and I was just going through my remaining free hands. I would never stick to a table like this as there are plenty worse to choose from thankfully.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Hehe actually this was my last hand on this table and I was just going through my remaining free hands. I would never stick to a table like this as there are plenty worse to choose from thankfully.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Awesome, was going to say that is the biggest leak in this hand :p

Aces, if villain is shoving QQ+ AK we have ~42% equity against that range and need ~37% equity to call profitably. You're not printing money here but can't fold vs regs, nits sure.
 
Aces2w1n

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Is that like a 3% 3bet range or 5%??
 
Aces2w1n

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Hehe actually this was my last hand on this table and I was just going through my remaining free hands. I would never stick to a table like this as there are plenty worse to choose from thankfully.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


Just 1 more hand .

How many times i say that and i get something like kk ak aa and just get done lol
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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Just 1 more hand .

How many times i say that and i get something like kk ak aa and just get done lol

Free hand bro.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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His 3-bet percentage when you raise from UTG is going to be about 0.65 times his normal 3-bet rate (6.7*0.65 = 4.4%). Then you just use the chart. You should fold in this spot.

Furthermore, I would venture that most people at 20NL fold pretty frequently to 4-bets. So you're probably making most of your money when they fold. And when you actually get it in, you're up against a tough range. And you're over-emphasizing the losses to KK, QQ in your mind.

* KK+: Good against any range
* QQ: vs 3% or higher
* JJ: vs 6.5% or higher
* TT: vs 8.5% or higher
* 99: vs 10.5% or higher
* 88: vs 12.5% or higher
* 77: vs 14% or higher
* AKs: vs 3% or higher
* AQs: vs 8% or higher
* AJs: vs 13% or higher
* AKo: vs 5% or higher
* AQo: vs 9% or higher
 

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IPlay

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So are we just flatting AK to this 3 bet and only 4 betting AA and KK? 4 bet folding AK 100bb deep sucks and this seems pretty exploitable. Or 4 bet smaller so we can fold to a 5 bet ship?
 
Aces2w1n

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Tbh im flatting his 3bet... floating against fishy and lags And folding against tag and nit regs on flops
 
Aces2w1n

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His 3-bet percentage when you raise from UTG is going to be about 0.65 times his normal 3-bet rate (6.7*0.65 = 4.4%). Then you just use the chart. You should fold in this spot.

Furthermore, I would venture that most people at 20NL fold pretty frequently to 4-bets. So you're probably making most of your money when they fold. And when you actually get it in, you're up against a tough range. And you're over-emphasizing the losses to KK, QQ in your mind.

* KK+: Good against any range
* QQ: vs 3% or higher
* JJ: vs 6.5% or higher
* TT: vs 8.5% or higher
* 99: vs 10.5% or higher
* 88: vs 12.5% or higher
* 77: vs 14% or higher
* AKs: vs 3% or higher
* AQs: vs 8% or higher
* AJs: vs 13% or higher
* AKo: vs 5% or higher
* AQo: vs 9% or higher


Thank you for this ... love u long time
 
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MinhANguyen

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I think 4-bet smaller and folding to a jam or flatting OOP is the better option. But if you flat OOP, I think you're going to have to get somewhat creative when you do hit to get paid off, taking sometimes unconventional lines.

People at these stakes hardly 5-bet jam with anything less than KK or AA, and it's hard to fold when you've put in 30% of your stack. I fold everything but KK or AA to a 4-bet, because if you jam or call a jam with AK, you're just flipping for your stack or crushed unless the other player is a maniac. Even then, you're flipping with any pair, and don't have great equity against any unpaired hand unless they're dominated. I think I heard that when you move up in stakes where people actually 3-bet/4-bet in general (for value or as a bluff) with a much higher frequency, then stacking off with AK is pretty standard.

This is all anonymous on Bovada, so I guess this is exploitable, but it's not like anyone can track my stats. And people at 25NL on Bovada tend to have pretty tight 3-bet ranges, especially in cash games. Most of the time I see JJ+ and AK. After I stopped stacking off with AK preflop, my winrate has improved a lot.
 
Thinker_145

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His 3-bet percentage when you raise from UTG is going to be about 0.65 times his normal 3-bet rate (6.7*0.65 = 4.4%). Then you just use the chart. You should fold in this spot.

Furthermore, I would venture that most people at 20NL fold pretty frequently to 4-bets. So you're probably making most of your money when they fold. And when you actually get it in, you're up against a tough range. And you're over-emphasizing the losses to KK, QQ in your mind.

* KK+: Good against any range
* QQ: vs 3% or higher
* JJ: vs 6.5% or higher
* TT: vs 8.5% or higher
* 99: vs 10.5% or higher
* 88: vs 12.5% or higher
* 77: vs 14% or higher
* AKs: vs 3% or higher
* AQs: vs 8% or higher
* AJs: vs 13% or higher
* AKo: vs 5% or higher
* AQo: vs 9% or higher

I have AKs not AKo.

I am curious about the top spot though. How is KK an automatic 4 bet vs a player who literally only 3 bets AA/KK?


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c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I have AKs not AKo.

I am curious about the top spot though. How is KK an automatic 4 bet vs a player who literally only 3 bets AA/KK?
There are 1,326 total hand combinations. With you holding the two Kings, a range of {AA, KK} is 7 combinations out of 1321, or 0.5%. I suppose if you encountered a player with a 3-bet percentage that low, you could probably fold KK.

But knowing their 3-bet percentage is in fact that low is pretty tough to do (unless you're playing live, and your opponent is over 70). You'd have to have a huge sample, since 0.5% is once in 200 hands.

Oh, and yeah, going broke with AKs, seems legit.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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There are 1,326 total hand combinations. With you holding the two Kings, a range of {AA, KK} is 7 combinations out of 1321, or 0.5%. I suppose if you encountered a player with a 3-bet percentage that low, you could probably fold KK.

But knowing their 3-bet percentage is in fact that low is pretty tough to do (unless you're playing live, and your opponent is over 70). You'd have to have a huge sample, since 0.5% is once in 200 hands.

Oh, and yeah, going broke with AKs, seems legit.

Lol, I was playing live 1/2 once. Got KK in EP and raised to $15, old man (70+)grabs a handful of $5 chips(~$75 worth) and just slams them on the felt and I folded KK to a single 3 bet, and was right.

According to your chart, going broke with AKs is the correct play here. Sometimes it happens, can't win em all.
 
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joe777

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Hard to get way from this hand,but i'll probably fold.
 
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