$2 PLO 6-max: Flopped straight with Khighflush draw facing turn raise.

So i'm starting to dip into omaha to check it out and see if i like it. I know that this is a game of nuts so is this a standard fold?

oker Stars $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players - View hand 814216
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

rtakano (CO): $5.70
RufouX (BTN): $2.61
Hero (SB): $2.04
HoloGramAA (BB): $1.00
fredaoxd (UTG): $5.00

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with 9 K 7 K
fredaoxd calls $0.02, rtakano calls $0.02, RufouX calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.01, HoloGramAA checks

Flop: ($0.10) 8 J T (5 players)
Hero bets $0.06, HoloGramAA folds, fredaoxd folds, rtakano calls $0.06, RufouX calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.28) A (3 players)
Hero bets $0.14, rtakano calls $0.14, RufouX raises to $0.83, Hero ???

on the flop i obv bet because i flopped a jhigh straight/khigh FD and a gutshot . Turn i was thinking about checking but since I had 2 of the kings from the deck i figured that it might be hard for either of them to have KQ. Do i just fold this or call and see what happens on the river?

You think being a game of nuts means having the absolute nuts or folding?

anyway, I think Q9 is more likely than KQ, but also 96, an A with a flush draw, 2 pairs, a set....this is 2NL. Just shove man.

Also, why are you betting 1/2 the pot on flop and turn when you have the 2nd nuts? That's leaving money on table....pot pot pot ftw

This is a spot where you really want a read on Villain. Some Villains will never raise here without KQxx. Others will be raising the range ComplexPlaya suggested (though I seriously doubt Q9 and 96 call the flop and raise the turn, except from the most exceptionally clueless of villains).

We're a serious dog to any KQ hand, but do extremely well against the range Complex suggested.

I had no reads sincei don't have the Omaha version of PT. However I hadn't seen much aggression out of him. He seemed more like a hit it or quit it type of guy

bgomez89 said:

I had no reads sincei don't have the Omaha version of PT.

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*facepalm*

bgomez89 said:

However I hadn't seen much aggression out of him. He seemed more like a hit it or quit it type of guy

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Most 2PLO types are. I'd prolly just fold, but we do have two blockers here...

Yeah, for this kind of read, you could look at postflop agg statistics if you had the HUD, but after a few showdowns you should be able to get a feel for who at the table will not raise without the nuts, and who will, unless you're multitabling a lot. Notes on this and other types of tendencies/habits (who bets strong/weak draws strongly? betsizing tells? who raises flop textures that lend themselves to bluffs? etc.) are better than stats imo.

You had 2nd nuts on flop, half pot bet was OK, to see where u r at... when the A hits on turn you have to fear caller raising, likely KQ (and maybe a 9),,, if u hit a club on the river again you don't have nuts, unless you hit Ac which can give villain a boat... I suspect he is raising w broadway at least on turn, and would get out of the hand. You don't have nuts and are not drawing to it...
In general, I don't credit anyone with bluffing in PLO unless I have seen them do it more than once.

c9h13no3 said:

*facepalm*

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For not having it or for relying on it for reads?

bgomez89 said:

For not having it or for relying on it for reads?

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I think it's because you are relying too much on PT. When you play someone you get a feel for how they play. Does he fold to a reraise easily? Is he aggressive on the flop? How often does he check the flop? Is he fishing for hands with a check/call? You get so much info on watching them. I don't have PT and in 5 minutes I can tell you how everyone plays because I watch them.

bgomez89 said:

For not having it or for relying on it for reads?

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Definitely the second one. It'd be crazy to buy it for 2PLO.

Even with a HUD, you should be watching the play of your opponents, and you should have an idea of what they play like. Watching showdowns, especially, is a habit you shouldn't lose when you start playing with a HUD.

Oh ok, ill keep that in mind. I guess its a good thing im not multitabling

PLO PT semi-hijack

lektrikguy said:

I think it's because you are relying too much on PT. When you play someone you get a feel for how they play. Does he fold to a reraise easily? Is he aggressive on the flop? How often does he check the flop? Is he fishing for hands with a check/call? You get so much info on watching them. I don't have PT and in 5 minutes I can tell you how everyone plays because I watch them.

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Ha, 5 minutes? Really? After 5-7 hands? I think not methinks.
I agree you have to keep observing and notetaking, but all the stats u mention are contained in my HUD -- I have thousands of hands logged on you (LOL) and evy1 else who plays regularly here... also all over a handful of sites, and PT for PLO (I broke down and bought it) is really helping my game, and with analysis... :icon_salu

Is essential for multitabling and grinding in particular. No time to type notes and play all those tables at once...

c9h13no3 said:

Definitely the second one. It'd be crazy to buy it for 2PLO.

Even with a HUD, you should be watching the play of your opponents, and you should have an idea of what they play like. Watching showdowns, especially, is a habit you shouldn't lose when you start playing with a HUD.

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I ditto.

I play 10 to 25 mainly and it has already paid for itself in PLO. Unlike HE, I bet most of the regs dont use it for PLO yet... I can forget sessions, come back to a site after days away and, their numbers are right in front of me... along with some flags... he he...

Another great reinforcer to tracking software, is great analysis, and happy graphs :