$2 NLHE Heads-up: K5off HEADSUP

Aces2w1n · Jun 1, 2013

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
Hero (BB): $1.53
SB: $0.91 (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 17)
SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 5:club: K:diamond:
SB raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $1.53 and is all-in, SB calls $0.85 and is all-in
Flop: ($1.82, 2 players) J:club: 2:diamond: J:diamond:
Turn: ($1.82, 2 players) 9:diamond:
River: ($1.82, 2 players) 6:heart:
Hero shows 5:club: K:diamond: (One Pair, Jacks) (Pre 28%, Flop 18%, Turn 25%)
SB shows T:spade: T:heart: (Two Pair, Jacks and Tens) (Pre 72%, Flop 82%, Turn 75%)
SB wins $1.76

Is it justified to push all in with a King or Ace in this position??? ... But really when playing headsup I need to work out what hands to pound my opponents with.
I know he has 10s but having a pocket pair could be just bad luck in this case tho?

remus_ny · Jun 1, 2013

I guess you limped or what? bad play. never limp if nobody raised in front of you. I don't understand why you 3bet shoved with K5o. Fold pre or raise.

MaDaMan · Jun 4, 2013

He was BB, SB raised, he shoved, SB called, he lost.

Why shove in the first place? You risk 43BB for 3 BB?

Try a 3 bet since you will have position on him.if you REALLY want to or you think he is too passive to call you.You lose 9BB instead of 43(if not your entire stack). If he 4 bets you fold.

Call, see a flop, bet post-flop and take it down there.
Also when it comes to hands like these it's good to at least have the ace. Worse case scenario, no one pairs for the whole 5 community cards and the ace ends up taking down the pot.

K5o is a fold any position. There aren't many things you can beat here.You could get lucky and flop a king and beat his pocket pair, but then you have kicker problems. Even a sloppy K9 would still beat you. Just fold.

Aleksei · Jun 4, 2013

Aces2w1n said:
Is it justified to push all in with a King or Ace in this position??? ...

With 4BB in pot? Uhhh, no.

Depending on how good your postflop play is (and no offense, if you think massively overshoving K5o into an open-raise is correct you still have a lot to learn), you generally wanna flat this OOP versus a minraise, and you nearly always wanna open it from the button; but it should basically never be in your defend range vs a 3x open. You don't have the odds to defend it, and most importantly you don't really HAVE to, since Villain can't so easily auto-profit from 3xing the button.

taaron · Jun 4, 2013

No its really bad, we can try to steal, but we should fold if the ss'er shoves. Its not even close. This is cash not a MTT.

Aleksei · Jun 4, 2013

We shouldn't try to (re)steal with this because we just don't have enough equity. OOP heads up facing a 3x I'd just 3bet a merged range consisting of the top 20-30% of hands, and fold anything else.

MaDaMan · Jun 4, 2013

Aleksei said:
We shouldn't try to (re)steal with this because we just don't have enough equity. OOP heads up facing a 3x I'd just 3bet a merged range consisting of the top 20-30% of hands, and fold anything else.

Um...Hero was BB, villain was SB. Doesn't that put the hero IP?

Aleksei · Jun 4, 2013

MaDaMan said:
Um...Hero was BB, villain was SB. Doesn't that put the hero IP?

No this was a HU hand. BB versus SB in position you should usually flat any two and 3bet the top of your range.

taaron · Jun 4, 2013

dude it doesn't matter this is cash not a mtt, lol. and who told you to do that for cash? that makes no sense.

Aleksei · Jun 4, 2013

taaron said:
dude it doesn't matter this is cash not a mtt, lol. and who told you to do that for cash? that makes no sense.

Well, think about it. You're in position so you will always realize far more equity than you're entitled to (via such things as closing the action on the river, paying less for bluffs, denying Villain's value hands the ability to extract value, etc. etc. etc.) so you need less equity than pot odds to call. Plus you have killer odds to try to take it down on the flop since the worst you'll be getting to call is like 2:1.

As for whether that's profitable, I think my BB winnings speak for themselves.

doomasiggy · Jun 4, 2013

Yeah this is never a good play, cash or mtt's. Really don't like flat calling either.

Aleksei · Jun 4, 2013

doomasiggy said:
Yeah this is never a good play, cash or mtt's. Really don't like flat calling either.

If you're HU vs someone who minraises buttons really wide you have to call because 1) you are substantially ahead of his enormous range, and 2) if you don't defend more than half of their range they can autoprofit by minraising every button and then folding to any action.

TylerN · Jun 4, 2013

Aleksei said:
If you're HU vs someone who minraises buttons really wide you have to call because 1) you are substantially ahead of his enormous range, and 2) if you don't defend more than half of their range they can autoprofit by minraising every button and then folding to any action.

[ ] minraise

Aleksei · Jun 4, 2013

Minraising is actually awesome, because it forces people to play super-wide ranges you can run over postflop. I open-minraise every position in every format except when 1) I keep getting a lot of callers in ring games, and 2) I'm playing HU vs a huge station who flats really wide OOP but 3bets almost never, (in which case I 3x or even 4x/5x to give myself more money to take down postflop).

ScottishMatt · Jun 5, 2013

Aleksei said:
If you're HU vs someone who minraises buttons really wide you have to call because 1) you are substantially ahead of his enormous range, and 2) if you don't defend more than half of their range they can autoprofit by minraising every button and then folding to any action.

Aleksei said:
Minraising is actually awesome, because it forces people to play super-wide ranges you can run over postflop. I open-minraise every position in every format except when 1) I keep getting a lot of callers in ring games, and 2) I'm playing HU vs a huge station who flats really wide OOP but 3bets almost never, (in which case I 3x or even 4x/5x to give myself more money to take down postflop).

Am I the only one who sees something wrong here. How can you be substantially ahead of the BTNs enormous range from the BBs perspective, and yet be able to run over a range that is substantially stronger than you from the perspective of the BTN. That advice is just so contrasting, just what

What you just said makes no sense. Unless you are a postflop genius like Blom. Are you Blom?

RodneyC86 · Jun 5, 2013

This hand stings my eyes so much.
What hand, pray tell, would call a massive preflop overshoves that you beat?
Only justifiable to play like this if your opponent absolutely calls anything or if your opponent will fold anything other than QQ+

RodneyC86 · Jun 5, 2013

Just realized the stack size, but no, this is still bad.

vinylspiros · Jun 5, 2013

this is bad. k high?" with a bad kicker? umm no.

Aleksei · Jun 5, 2013

ScottishMatt said:
Am I the only one who sees something wrong here. How can you be substantially ahead of the BTNs enormous range from the BBs perspective, and yet be able to run over a range that is substantially stronger than you from the perspective of the BTN. That advice is just so contrasting, just what

The first bit is about this particular hand. In heads-up play it's correct to open an enormously wide range from the button, because you have an inherent postflop advantage by being in position and you're getting blinded every hand. So when someone opens the button as wide as they're supposed to, if they minraise, then you HAVE to defend with anything that beats his range (adjusting up for pot odds, which are fantastic vs minraise, and then down for postflop disadvantage, which is significant out of position). When someone minraises a standard 70-80%, thus, you have to flat K5o unless you expect Villain to outplay you postflop, because otherwise you're probably defending too tight.

The second bit is general open-raising strategy. When you open raise in a tight dynamic where you will not usually get more than one caller (if everyone at your table is a reg or at least is aware overcalling is bad this will usually happen), so when you open big you're forcing any caller to have a super tight, polarized, all-or-nothing-from-the-beginning range -- against which you have to have the nuts or the near-nuts to continue playing postflop. If you minraise on the other hand, you force them to have a wider postflop range which will miss boards more frequently or get weaker hits, which you thus can take down postflop more frequently. And better yet, if your opponents insist on seeing you with a tight range, that means they're folding to your open a ton, so you're taking a ton of blinds and can easily give up most of the weaker part of your range postflop without losing money (after all, you just need everyone to fold to your open 57% of the time to autoprofit from minraising) -- and you just need villain to fold half the time HU or blind vs blind to do the same).

And, no I'm not Victor Blom, but I'm not exactly afraid of postflop play either.

vinylspiros · Jun 5, 2013

Aleksei said:
The first bit is about this particular hand. In heads-up play it's correct to open an enormously wide range from the button, because you have an inherent postflop advantage by being in position and you're getting blinded every hand. So when someone opens the button as wide as they're supposed to, if they minraise, then you HAVE to defend with anything that beats his range (adjusting up for pot odds, which are fantastic vs minraise, and then down for postflop disadvantage, which is significant out of position). When someone minraises a standard 70-80%, thus, you have to flat K5o unless you expect Villain to outplay you postflop, because otherwise you're probably defending too tight.

The second bit is general open-raising strategy. When you open raise in a tight dynamic where you will not usually get more than one caller (if everyone at your table is a reg or at least is aware overcalling is bad this will usually happen), so when you open big you're forcing any caller to have a super tight, polarized, all-or-nothing-from-the-beginning range -- against which you have to have the nuts or the near-nuts to continue playing postflop. If you minraise on the other hand, you force them to have a wider postflop range which will miss boards more frequently or get weaker hits, which you thus can take down postflop more frequently. And better yet, if your opponents insist on seeing you with a tight range, that means they're folding to your open a ton, so you're taking a ton of blinds and can easily give up most of the weaker part of your range postflop without losing money (after all, you just need everyone to fold to your open 57% of the time to autoprofit from minraising) -- and you just need villain to fold half the time HU or blind vs blind to do the same).

And, no I'm not Victor Blom, but I'm not exactly afraid of postflop play either.

Aleksei,where do you come up with all these statistics man? are you a ROBOT?

im kidding of course. your posts always top knotch. good stuff. i cant understand alot of them but i know u know what ur talking about. heheheheh

Aleksei · Jun 6, 2013

vinylspiros said:
Aleksei,where do you come up with all these statistics man? are you a ROBOT?

I just like math.

$2 NLHE Heads-up: K5off HEADSUP

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