$2 NLHE Full Ring: Would you ever fold here?

Alucard

Alucard

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888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: 38.5 BB (VPIP: 64.71, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 17)
BB: 183 BB (VPIP: 23.21, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 16.84, PFR: 12.24, 3Bet Preflop: 4.11, Hands: 198)
CO: 126.5 BB (VPIP: 15.99, PFR: 10.66, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 321)
Hero (BTN): 190 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Jc Js
fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop : (7 BB, 2 players) 3c 4c 5c
SB checks, Hero bets 4 BB, SB raises to 8 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

Turn : (23 BB, 2 players) Jd
SB checks, Hero bets 23 BB, SB raises to 27.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 4.5 BB

River : (78 BB, 2 players) 6h

It's obvious he hit a draw. I thought it was a flush after the flop raise. But being this short and the likeliness of a 2 pair I put him all in.

SB shows 6s 7d (Straight, Seven High)
(Pre 18%, Flop 61%, Turn 57%)

Hero shows Jc Js (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 82%, Flop 39%, Turn 43%)

SB wins 73.5 BB
 
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

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when passive fish start raising you're usually beat . should be an easy fold on the flop with monotone board. don't really see how your jacks improve often enough to beat a made flush to continue past that point and especially as he is so short he isn't giving you the odds to try and draw to a full house.
Can't see two pair raising the flop on a monotone board and don't see even his range being wide enough to to be playing 54, 53, 43 to hit those two pair. far more likely to have hit a set than two pair on this flop simply because 33,44,55 are far more likely to be in his range.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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when passive fish start raising you're usually beat . should be an easy fold on the flop with monotone board. don't really see how your jacks improve often enough to beat a made flush to continue past that point and especially as he is so short he isn't giving you the odds to try and draw to a full house.
Can't see two pair raising the flop on a monotone board and don't see even his range being wide enough to to be playing 54, 53, 43 to hit those two pair. far more likely to have hit a set than two pair on this flop simply because 33,44,55 are far more likely to be in his range.

He did call me often.
And what if I had 67off here in the same scenario.
To his raise what should I do?
Should I put him on a flush again but continue?

I know 67off opening pre is not good but in the button with action folding so...
 
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

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THE KEY THING HERE IS THAT HE IS A PASSIVE FISH. He doesn't know where the raise button is , but he went out of his normal pattern and found it . he only does this with the nuts, with 5x,4x,3x 66-JJ and offsuit spade etc he's just calling . You thought he might have the flush , you need runner runner to be able to beat him and he doesn't have a big enough stack to justify chasing that runner runner

just fold 67o pre but if you did have it just call him down for a cheap showdown and fold to a shove or a four flush board. the relative hand strength of a straight on a monotone flop board is mediocre so you don't want to be playing a big pot with it.
 
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KFlint

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As played, check back the turn, you are likely behind but have a lot of outs to improve. Like Keith said, a passive fish doesn't raise with a strong draw, he already has it most likely.
 
B

braveslice

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Passive fish raising and passive fish raising 2x are different things. Usually passive fish 2x raising is just a draw hand. So for me the hand seems optimally played. I don’t like pot size bets though =) but that is more a personal thingy. This is not a confirmed fact though, just something I believe is true.

Anyways we have 43% on the turn, so not that important hand to analyze. It would be more interesting to have TPTK on the turn :D

It’s quite important concept though that Keith and KFlint says, passive raising is always dangerous.
 
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