$2 NLHE Full Ring: Weak Jacks

I really need to getting used to reading opponents hand, with the intention of knowing the combination of hands I can beat. Here is one, sorry this is very basic stuff:

pokerstars Game #69441488034: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - Table 'Bernardina III' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Isiah-Cifer ($4.43 in chips)
Seat 3: CistaCista ($3.04 in chips)
Seat 4: alfonso0306 ($1.52 in chips)
Seat 5: PAPU90 ($0.60 in chips)
Seat 6: EastArt ($4.08 in chips)
Seat 7: Emby59 ($5.82 in chips)
Seat 8: PaRaZzEe ($2 in chips)
PAPU90: posts small blind $0.01
EastArt: posts big blind $0.02

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CistaCista [Js Jc]
Emby59: raises $0.04 to $0.06
PaRaZzEe: folds
Isiah-Cifer: folds
CistaCista: raises $0.06 to $0.12
alfonso0306: folds
PAPU90: folds
EastArt: folds
Emby59: calls $0.06

*** FLOP *** [Ad Ts 8h]
Emby59: checks
CistaCista: checks

*** TURN *** [Ad Ts 8h] <font color='black'>2♣</font>
Emby59: bets $0.22

I have no pre-info that tells me the guys is loose.
Since he raised preflop UTG he must have a hand, I think at least A with decent x, or middle pair.

On the flop he only checks, but here is what I think: if he has Ax then he could now expect I have a better A and he is testing me, but he will probably not want to fold his A. Therefore I also check.
He may have the middle pair, and maybe I should bet based on that?

When he bets on turn I fear he must have the A. He doesn't have KK or AA. He could have TT and wanting me to bet on flop. He could maybe have QQ?
I believe he wouldn't bluff with middle pair. And KQ is another option that he would also not bet with. I don't see any hands I could beat except semi-bluffs.

Maybe I played too weak?

I think you should 3-bet bigger with JJ...at least 3X original raise. And bet the flop too (maybe 1/2 pot since its a 3-bet pot), with only one over-card you often still have the best hand.

As played...

Its hard to know what he has here but the turn bet is a bit weird after checking the flop so I would call and see what happens on the river. You have a good hand and he could easily be making a move after you flop check, so its worth a call I think.

Is sometimes really hard to know what villains are playing at 2NL...because they are often playing badly you can get quite unexpected outcomes. Like you say, he may be trying to slow play a set of tens. This isn't something I would do (anymore) but that doesn't mean others aren't going to do that!

What were you trying to accomplish with your min 3-bet?

it's not a min3bet?

3bet bigger, check flop

I'd fold the turn.

CB the flop, you're losing so much value by not doing that. About 55% of the pot I like to do but you can probably do 50%. As played fold then turn. If you presume he is a half competant player his UTG raise isn't huge and there is so little of his range that you beat.

baudib1 said:

What were you trying to accomplish with your min 3-bet?

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I have been playing with a rules-of-thumb of 3-betting 2x when in good position? So I didn't put much thought to it.

Still
- It should be enough to get rid of the blinds.
- if villain has the nuts and 4-bets I am out, and cheaply. He did after all raise UTG and is not known to me as loose.

Isn't that ok?

micromachine said:

the turn bet is a bit weird after checking the flop

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Assuming he has Ax or better, betting on the flop would be a donk bet for him right? He would get a fold from me if he leads out, but by checking he can induce me to c-bet and he get more money out of me?

CistaCista said:

- if villain has the nuts and 4-bets I am out, and cheaply. He did after all raise UTG and is not known to me as loose.

Isn't that ok?

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If he raised UTG then flatting seems fine - blinds will have a wide range which won't affect you too much as if it comes A/K/Q high and UTG bets then you are likely going to have to fold anyway given what he is repping.

BlueNowhere said:

CB the flop, you're losing so much value by not doing that. About 55% of the pot I like to do but you can probably do 50%. As played fold then turn. If you presume he is a half competant player his UTG raise isn't huge and there is so little of his range that you beat.

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Why? What does he call pre and then call on the flop which is worse than JJ and which he won't call a blank turn with to bluff catch (Tx)?

CistaCista said:

I have been playing with a rules-of-thumb of 3-betting 2x when in good position? So I didn't put much thought to it.

Still
- It should be enough to get rid of the blinds.
- if villain has the nuts and 4-bets I am out, and cheaply. He did after all raise UTG and is not known to me as loose.

Isn't that ok?

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If you can't comfortably stack JJ vs. his 4-bet range then don't 3-bet. Min-raising and then folding to a 4-bet is pretty horrible, ducy

Hand, and advice in this thread is so bad.

Three bet larger (or just call), rarely cbet this board, call the turn.

c9h13no3 said:

Three bet larger (or just call), rarely cbet this board, call the turn.

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+1

On your 3 bet you loose value. If Villian would call a .06 3 bet he would call a .10 or .12 bet. JJ is not so great you can give equity. Bet bigger for value.

Check flop is standard. Cbet only if villain has shown tendency to fold to cbets.

Check turn unless you cbet and villain has shown tendency to fold to double barrels.

As played call turn and try to see cheap river to win small pot. You have showdown value so try to see it.

Gunner57 said:

+1

On your 3 bet you loose value. If Villian would call a .06 3 bet he would call a .10 or .12 bet. JJ is not so great you can give equity. Bet bigger for value.

Check flop is standard. Cbet only if villain has shown tendency to fold to cbets.

Check turn unless you cbet and villain has shown tendency to fold to double barrels.

As played call turn and try to see cheap river to win small pot. You have showdown value so try to see it.

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Why would we c-bet if we know villain folds to c-bets?


and micromachine wtf man?! i swear i preached the wa/wb theory to everyone in the strategy thread not long ago, arghhhhhhhhh!

calling turn is terrible.

What's so bad about calling the turn?

The guy is deep and it was a min 3-bet so he's not folding anything, giving him a gazillion Ax and he probably sucks so he would flat AK and he doesn't have enough combos in his bluffing range or worse value hands (KT, 99) here to pot the turn.

baudib1 said:

The guy is deep and it was a min 3-bet so he's not folding anything, giving him a gazillion Ax and he probably sucks so he would flat AK and he doesn't have enough combos in his bluffing range or worse value hands (KT, 99) here to pot the turn.

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How does him not folding anything make his range more rich in AX? If anything, when he folds half the time, he folds more non AX combos.

We've kept villain's range wide and induced a bet. Its textbook WA/WB.

Even if he bets all of his Tx and broadway draws we're a big underdog vs. his turn betting range.

To be clear, I've called in this spot and called river against plenty of people and been good but I'd suspect that this is 2 NL and people aren't turning pairs into bluffs. Since it's a 3-bet pot I'd assume 2 NL regs play basically straight forward.

Regarding his Ax range, I mostly suspect he's going to fold AJo and worse to a bigger 3-bet and only continue with AQ sometimes and AK, which he may 4-bet. But if his range is something like AA-88/AT/KQ+, top pair and sets are most of his range and if he's turning Tx into a bluff he can also valuebet KK/QQ.

I'd call with KK before JJ because we're doing a lot better against his range

3betting here is terrible if he is unknown... call pre, float 1 street when he cbets and then decide on turn, but vs his utg range Js is basically setmining hand at fr..

baudib1 said:

Regarding his Ax range, I mostly suspect he's going to fold AJo and worse to a bigger 3-bet and only continue with AQ sometimes and AK, which he may 4-bet. But if his range is something like AA-88/AT/KQ+, top pair and sets are most of his range and if he's turning Tx into a bluff he can also valuebet KK/QQ.

I'd call with KK before JJ because we're doing a lot better against his range

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I think he very rarely has KK here, he'll 4bet it. The last sentence seems completely pointless

adding to my last thingo as played cb flop assuming his range is 2s-Js KQ AJ+ cbet because he is like wtf this unknown just min3bet me and then checked the flop he either has As or nothing so he is betting every turn imo

Thanks for all the comments sweeties! I am sucking it all in although some are a little deep for me.

One thing that is conspicuous is all the comments that say that my minimum raise is not enough, although that is what I usually do.

So what happened to the routine of raising x2 in position, x3 OOP.
WHEN is that applicaple on 2NL?

for one, 3x is probably too small an open at 2NL. for another, you're trying to play for stacks when you 3-bet. stacks get in a lot easier postflop if you make it .20-.25 rather than .12.

I would probably never min 3-bet. If he had made it .12 I'd go 2.5-3x. OOP I'd go 3.5-4x

You should raise it more preflop imo. Don't 3bet an amount less than 3x the original raise. Just calling here preflop is fine against some players though as well. As played I probably call the turn. Bet is only half pot, I have a good hand etc.