$2 NLHE Full Ring: TT from CO vs UTG+1 raiser--facing river bet

PokerStars - $0.02 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $1.18
SB: $0.46
BB: $2.08
UTG: $3.70
UTG+1: $2.38
MP: $0.88
MP+1: $1.57
LP: $2.01
Hero (CO): $3.35

villain stats 17/10/4 over 87 hands

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has T:diamond: T:club:

fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.06, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.06, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.15, 2 players) 8:spade: 2:diamond: 8:diamond:
UTG+1 bets $0.11, Hero calls $0.11

Turn: ($0.37, 2 players) 9:spade:
UTG+1 bets $0.26, Hero calls $0.26

River: ($0.89, 2 players) 5:club:
UTG+1 bets $0.42, HERO???

how would you play this hand?

I like your line, I'm pretty sure I play this the same way.

hero should call with that hand. I don't think so, the UTG+1 has 8, only better pocket pair. Maybe hero should raise on the flop or the turn to see "where he is" with TT. Here 99 is also possible. Hero calls the flop, calls the turn, you don't have initiative in this hand. Hero is in position, so IMO the best here is raise on the flop about 0,25$.

3bet pre, as played raise river, hes never got the flush here
i think he's 3 street barreling with AK/AQ/AJ.

itsa 3bet prflop, but going there in the turn call him u have no clue on what he got at this point continue to play it passivethat what your choice preflop and on the flop justkeep it that way. personnaly i hateplaying hands passive its just facing tough decision for no reason put your opponnent in difficult position by 3betting and firing.

jaworek1405 said:

hero should call with that hand. I don't think so, the UTG+1 has 8, only better pocket pair. Maybe hero should raise on the flop or the turn to see "where he is" with TT. Here 99 is also possible. Hero calls the flop, calls the turn, you don't have initiative in this hand. Hero is in position, so IMO the best here is raise on the flop about 0,25$.

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there isn't such a raise to see "where he is",you raise only for three reasons 1.to bluff 2.to value bet and 3. to collect dead money. for the record i didn't call the river because i lose from many hand 22,55,88,99, JJ+ i think that on the river i only beat bluff if he 3barelling with some kind of broadway cards.

AlfieAA said:

3bet pre, as played raise river, hes never got the flush here
i think he's 3 street barreling with AK/AQ/AJ.

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if you put him on these hands why to raise the river and not just call his bet?

You should of 3 bet pre, but if you play it the way you did then what changes between the call on the turn and the fold on the river. The 5 doesn't hit his range. Therefore if you are calling turn because you think you are ahead then you should be calling river IMO

AlfieAA said:

3bet pre, as played raise river, hes never got the flush here
i think he's 3 street barreling with AK/AQ/AJ.

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There is no flush possible? Or are you taking about the draw??

micromoi said:

itsa 3bet prflop, but going there in the turn call him u have no clue on what he got at this point continue to play it passivethat what your choice preflop and on the flop justkeep it that way. personnaly i hateplaying hands passive its just facing tough decision for no reason put your opponnent in difficult position by 3betting and firing.

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he is raising from UTG so probably have something strong why 3bet and not just call for set mining? if we 3bet here we could easy get a 4bet and waste our hand. and if we raise that flop we are getting called from better hand and the hands we are beat would fold, what would you do if you reraise him on the flop and get called? would you firing the turn?

jackaoliver said:

You should of 3 bet pre, but if you play it the way you did then what changes between the call on the turn and the fold on the river. The 5 doesn't hit his range. Therefore if you are calling turn because you think you are ahead then you should be calling river IMO

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i don't like 3bet pre, but i agree with your last saying...

TakMits said:

i didn't call the river because i lose from many hand 22,55,88,99, JJ+ i think that on the river i only beat bluff if he 3barelling with some kind of broadway cards.

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What do you think his raising range is here? If his range is 10%~, the pairs you are losing to account for 26% of his range. That's with the cards on the board removed. Does he have a limping range? If he does, that could rule out 22 and 55, if he limps small PP. I think you played it well. Not sure if river should be a call or fold. Leaning towards a fold though - if he is a very passive player, fold for sure.

TakMits said:

there isn't such a raise to see "where he is",

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Hmmmm... guess I'll hafta stop doing that.

A raise can give you so much info. I dunno, I think there's many reasons to raise other than bluff, value or dead money.

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JusSumguy said:

Hmmmm... guess I'll hafta stop doing that.

A raise can give you so much info. I dunno, I think there's many reasons to raise other than bluff, value or dead money.

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could you name the reasons you say? because betting for informations its not a reason but its an effect. when we bet as value or as a bluff, our opponents action tells us some information. its not my opinion i have read a book written from a pro and i think that he knows some things better from us and many pros agree that there is only 3 reasons to bet

TakMits said:

he is raising from UTG so probably have something strong why 3bet and not just call for set mining? if we 3bet here we could easy get a 4bet and waste our hand. and if we raise that flop we are getting called from better hand and the hands we are beat would fold, what would you do if you reraise him on the flop and get called? would you firing the turn?

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the raise from utg means nothing more than a raise u dont have more infos about his agression so yes a 3bet is the right play if he 4bet u so u know where u stand and u r not loosing more money, if he is just calling that means that your hand is better u got control and u can gives him a range of hands.
if u play 10s u r not playing them for set mining its a loosing play long term u r talking about u r talking one of the best starting hands in the deck.

I would have called pre-flop. raised flop. and if he calls would fold the turn itself. as he likely has a higher pair or an 8.

I don't like a 3 bet pre. I think its fine as played and I'm calling river as well.

skrsh76 said:

I would have called pre-flop. raised flop. and if he calls would fold the turn itself. as he likely has a higher pair or an 8.

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Worst advice ITT

I thnk calling river bets are cool but I would always be aware utg raiser with 1010 in the hand against villain....coud easily be against jj-aa but I don't think this is reason enough to fold pre flop

micromoi said:

the raise from utg means nothing more than a raise u dont have more infos about his agression

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No.

so yes a 3bet is the right play if he 4bet u so u know where u stand and u r not loosing more money, if he is just calling that means that your hand is better u got control and u can gives him a range of hands.
if u play 10s u r not playing them for set mining its a loosing play long term u r talking about u r talking one of the best starting hands in the deck.

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Hell no.

pocketehs said:

I don't like a 3 bet pre. I think its fine as played and I'm calling river as well.

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...what is he 3barreling with that you're beating?

This thread is hurting my eyes.

I feel like a lot of people don't play in these games and don't understand the dynamic. I don't play in these games either but I know that it's FR and it's Zoom and it's a pretty passive player in EP -- not 3-betting TT and frankly probably not 3-betting any hand.

Flop: Hard to see fold here.

Turn: I'm folding turn as we have a bluff-catcher vs. someone who has a very strong range and probably gives up his bluffs on the turn.

River: River seems close to a call because this type of player will typically get scared and try to check down his big value hands. But I feel like we're just going to level ourselves into making a bad call on the river because we made a bad call on the turn.

baudib1 said:

This thread is hurting my eyes.

I feel like a lot of people don't play in these games and don't understand the dynamic. I don't play in these games either but I know that it's FR and it's Zoom and it's a pretty passive player in EP -- not 3-betting TT and frankly probably not 3-betting any hand.

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So you are not 3 betting AA OR KK OR QQ for value?

pocketehs said:

I don't like a 3 bet pre. I think its fine as played and I'm calling river as well.

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I think this is a very-very typical situation one often encounters.... I often do as you suggest but I feel rather in the dark, calling, calling on every street with no idea what might happen... If the villain keeps firing on every street doesn't it mean he has something better than TT.... I also read a lot that raising just for information is bad but at the same time it can save a lot of money in a situation like this...

Don't raise for information no matter how enticing it seems. You should never be in the dark because each action villain takes tells a story. Every street you should be able to discount hands out of his range in order to make informed decisions so you're not just calling because your hand looks nice