$2 NLHE Full Ring: Shove turn/flop?

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Humps

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Title says it all

Everest - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 10 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

MP+1: $0.22
MP+2: $1.91
LP: $2.72
CO: $1.65
BTN: $2.20
SB: $0.38
BB: $1.75
UTG: $2.15
Hero (UTG+1): $2.13
MP: $2.10

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has 4c 4d

fold, Hero calls $0.02, fold, MP+1 calls $0.02, MP+2 calls $0.02, LP calls $0.02, fold, fold, fold, BB checks

Flop: ($0.11, 5 players) 4s Jc Ks
BB checks, Hero bets $0.11, MP+1 raises to $0.20 and is all-in, fold, LP calls $0.20, fold, Hero calls $0.09

Turn: ($0.71, 3 players) 3c
Hero bets $0.71, LP calls $0.71

River: ($2.13, 3 players) Ac
Hero bets $1.20 and is all-in, LP calls $1.20
 
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titan72offsuit

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Just beginning to take stabs at hand analysis' here so take this for what is worth. I am sure far better players are going to come along here and give you a far better analysis than this will be.

I think the worst thing you can do in any stakes is be the first to limp into a pot. So if you are going to play small pp's from early position you need to raise with them and hope to take down the pot there to make up for the times that your not going to hit your set which is like 7 out of 8 flops. Also it builds a pot so when you hit your set your going to make more $$.

Flop bet is fine with me into 2 players. Dont mind the flat when LP tags along but I would shove definitely shove turn. I guess the only thing that makes sense for the LP to have is QTcc.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Don't open-limp. I raise pf.

As played:

pot flop is good, pot turn as well, I don't mind betting slightly less as it keeps some worse hands in his range and we are still set up for a shove on river.

Why do you want to shove flop/turn? I'm guessing he turned up with QT
 
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Humps

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In early position with low/mid pairs I thought it was best financially to see the flop as cheaply as possible.
 
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titan72offsuit

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In early position with low/mid pairs I thought it was best financially to see the flop as cheaply as possible.

Okay your game 2nl. The standard pre-flop raise for most people at these stakes should be .08 cents. If you limp and someone isolating you as the limper makes it .10 cents. What are you going to do? Call with your small pp? I constantly try to isolate limpers in late position.

In this senario it costs you .10 cents to see the flop, when if you would have raised initially it would have cost you .08 cents.

.02 over 100 hands = $2.00

Your losing a buy in over 100 hands with this strategy.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Open limping is just terrible whether you have a 22, AA or 89s. Limping behind in LP is fine with a PP
 
H

Humps

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Maybe I don't get raised enough at these lower limits so I feel I can get away with it. Limp, if re-raised a lot then fold is the line I've been taking.

I do think raising in EP with small pockets is no good though as I'm only going to make a set 1/8.5 times so I don't think I can justify a raise PF.

I don't want to fold these as they are very difficult to spot and have huge implied odds.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Since when do you need to make a set to win a pot? So many good cards to bluff at. Also when you do hit a set you've already built a bigger pot.
 
bgomez89

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Maybe I don't get raised enough at these lower limits so I feel I can get away with it. Limp, if re-raised a lot then fold is the line I've been taking.

I do think raising in EP with small pockets is no good though as I'm only going to make a set 1/8.5 times so I don't think I can justify a raise PF.
Then fold pre.

Do not open limp, ESPECIALLY in early position. You do know that it's ten times harder to play in a pot when you're OOP have no initiative right?

By raising we gain more ways of taking down the pot in that we can:

1 cbet bluff and scoop the pot
2 actually hit and value bet

By open limping we eliminate option 1
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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Then fold pre.

Do not open limp, ESPECIALLY in early position. You do know that it's ten times harder to play in a pot when you're OOP have no initiative right?

By raising we gain more ways of taking down the pot in that we can:

1 cbet bluff and scoop the pot
2 actually hit and value bet

By open limping we eliminate option 1

And we get less value from option 2, since the pot starts smaller.
 
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baudib1

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It may not matter at 2 NL but most FR regs know what your range is when you do open limp and they're incredible nits anyway and generally not stacking KQ on KJ4 flops.
 
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titan72offsuit

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It may not matter at 2 NL but most FR regs know what your range is when you do open limp and they're incredible nits anyway and generally not stacking KQ on KJ4 flops.

This especially. As the game progresses - being the nit I am and you seeing the hands I show down with - I am going to know what your open limping range is and when it is folded around to me after your limp I will raise you with ATC.

Then when the flop is any ace or broadway and I am betting into you for 2 and 3 streets you going to continue?

Never ever ever open limp. Just go out in the back yard and burn money.
 
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Humps

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Thanks, I'll make sure I raise in future. I'm not sure why but it feels counter intuitive, guess I will have to get over this feeling.
 
Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

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Look fine to me. Looks like a protected pot so you don't have the ability to shove the flop?
 
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