$2 NLHE Full Ring: Should I have bet the turn?

EvertonGirl

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Need advice with this hand, I am not used to ring games.

Full Tilt - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 117.5 BB
SB: 39 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 1)
BB: 108.5 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 18)
UTG: 364 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 37.04, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 27)
UTG+1: 20 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
MP: 107 BB (VPIP: 26.51, PFR: 12.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 83)
MP+1: 79 BB (VPIP: 19.05, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
CO: 77 BB (VPIP: 15.63, PFR: 9.38, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 32)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts penalty blind 0.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2 BB) Hero has Q Q

UTG raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 4 BB, fold, Hero raises to 16 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 12 BB, fold

Flop: (38 BB, 2 players) A 9 K
UTG checks, Hero bets 25 BB, UTG calls 25 BB

Turn: (88 BB, 2 players) 2
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: (88 BB, 2 players) 3
UTG checks, Hero checks

I will show results later.
 
DrazaFFT

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imo 3 bet pre is too big, im guessing that with the sizing you wanted him to either fold or shove so you could call, right? with him calling big 3b OOP i would insta look at him as a bit weaker player but anyway, flop bet is OK, turn is a brick and i would bet there too but i would check back river if he call, i would probably fold if he raise turn too. I kinda have him on TT JJ 99 or worse type of hands, I dont see him flatting AK AA KK QQ and you also blocking ladies, river would be check back no matter was it the hearth or not, but also on the other hand we could represent flush by betting 3 streets, i simply cant make my mind, im writing as im thinking now :D not big mistake to just check it down like you did tho
 
EvertonGirl

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No I wasn't wanting him to fold to my cbet, I would of definitely called a shove. I thought the 3bet sizing was standard. I was gonna raise 3x if it was just the OR but as a caller came along I 3bet to 4x instead, is that not the norm in a cash game?

When he called the flop I didn't believe he had the flush but could have a FD A or a K, horrible flop for QQ's. I wanted him to fold the flop bet and I thought a good 2/3 would get the job done as he wasn't too passive when he called I thought more of an A or K with a possible FD. I believe I should of barrelled the turn when it showed a brick and that was probably my mistake.
 
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DrazaFFT

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I missed the caller in the middle, its Ok then, sorry, what i meant was, that with that sizing you wanted him either to fold or shove, not giving him an option to call, wasnt thinking about would you call shove or not, of course that we stack QQ with 100bb at these limits, but as i already said i missed caller before you...

C-bet to get folds is a bad idea on this flop, cuz there is so much that can call, to much draws wont fold there but would fold turn bet, specially cuz 2s doesnt improve anyone's drawing hand, this is why we barrel blank turn if c-bet didnt worked.
 
EvertonGirl

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No worries it is easy to miss the flat caller :)

I will have to get that thought process out of my head on that kind of flop I just thought it looked strong being IP against a check, I am trying to improve my post flop for cash games. I do agree that I should of bet the turn, even though I believe villain would of called anyway :)
 
IPlay

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I might just check the flop here.
 
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MinhANguyen

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Pretty much checking and folding to any aggression on this flop. Based off his PFR stat, he might be able to get aggro with air, and we don't want to stack off with QQ on this type on board. Any heart/straight draw has good equity against us, and we're dead to any A or K.
 
WVHillbilly

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I like checking the flop.

As played though if he weren't so terrible I'd be tempted to turn your hand into a bluff and shove the river when the 4th heart hits. Against a player this loose though he may well look you up with hands like TT with a heart so just getting to SD is probably your only play. It sucks when he has some KJ hand with no heart but since he looks like the type who is only holding on to your money for a few minutes anyway I don't mind him winning this one.
 
EvertonGirl

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Thanks for the advice guys :)

Vill had 44 and yep one was the heart.

As I couldn't top up my chips with this being bought in with a RGT I was left with 73 bb and had AK again I 3bet and when vill 4 bet I shoved, I know I played this wrong as vill was a tightish player. Vill had KK and held.

Later with 50+ I was on the BB with A9s and had 1 player who OR on the CO, I shoved and again was against KK and vill held.

I am playing the RGT just to get a feel for ring games... Is shoving when you have 50 bbs correct or not?
 
DrazaFFT

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3bet shoving A9s with 50bb is no no definitely. with 50bb (i play MSS which is game with 40-80ish bb) you wanna 3bet regular size, if you get 4bet you fold all your bluff range and 5bet AI (or call Ai depends of his sizing) all you value range... In the ranges i got from my coach, at BB against CO i 3bet for value and plan to stackoff TT+ AK, and i 3bet as bluff and plan to fold to any aggression with A6s-A8s, K9s, Q9s, J9s, 87s and 76s. You should also know that bluff range is not set in stone, you dont need to 3bet as bluff exactly these hands but you should have similar number of combos. I can go deeper in this cuz i currently reading bugs 3bet strategy articles from donkr,great read btw but dont wanna derail, if you are interested more in this concept im here :D
 
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