$2 NLHE Full Ring: should i have folded jacks?

AlfieAA

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pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($2.93)
BB ($1.60)
UTG ($0.94)
UTG+1 ($4.51)
Hero (MP1) ($3.80)
MP2 ($0.59)
MP3 ($1.86)
CO ($4.78)
Button ($1.56)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J
diamond.gif
, J
spade.gif

2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 4 folds, SB raises to $0.24, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, SB raises to $1.26, Hero calls $0.86

Flop: ($2.54) 4
diamond.gif
, 3
diamond.gif
, 5
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $1.67 (All-In), Hero calls $1.67

Turn: ($5.88) Q
diamond.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($5.88) Q
club.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $5.88 | Rake: $0.21
 
AlfieAA

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i knew when he 4betted me pre flop he had rockets.....i just knew it.....is it ok to pay the villian off to see how your reads are........
 
JOEBOB69

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Hero had 100bb hell yeah..
 
RodneyC86

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i knew when he 4betted me pre flop he had rockets.....i just knew it.....is it ok to pay the villian off to see how your reads are........

I'm guilty as charged of this too. I DO pay people off to check on my reads, and I'm right quite often, much to my own mixed confused feelings of joy and sadness at the same time. BTW, need stats on villains. I'd be quite happy to stack off JJ against a certified maniac

At any rate, let's assume he does this only with QQplus. You have to fold unfortunately to a shove on that kind of flop despite you having Jd. Why? You're essentially screwed half the time when he has a heart in his pair with you having only the 2 jacks as outs. equity only a measly 8% I think. When he does not have the diamond the other half the time, you are about 43% favorite given the flush draw 9 outs plus the two jacks. That averages 25% which means the pot odds is not good enough for a call' yours at the flop was 2.5 to 1.

Course this is 2nl where people fall in love with Ak and will shove or even call an all in with AK high, so is this guy one?
 
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AlfieAA

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Lol mixed confusions of joy and sadness haha so true....you give yourself a high five for getting the read right, then 2 seconds later you are swearing at yourself for being BLOODY STUPID.....need to get out this habit pronto and lay the bitches down
 
JOEBOB69

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Need stats/notes or something to make assumption about villains 3bet tenacity's.
Point being would it be +ev to fold,flat,or 4bet
 
AlfieAA

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I'm not using a hud, but I never seen him 3,4 betting before...so it was obvious he had a monster.....no idea on the EV stuff yet, still trying to get my head around equity
 
RodneyC86

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I'm not using a hud, but I never seen him 3,4 betting before...so it was obvious he had a monster.....no idea on the EV stuff yet, still trying to get my head around equity

Should fold preflop then. Or call his 3b to set mine, your JJ at this point is nearly as playable as pocket twos given his range if your read is right.

At 2nl, most peeps can't let go of a monster hole hand, and they probably shouldn't! Often they face off fish that their hand crushes
 
Nathan Williams

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It's hard to say anything about this hand without some information on the opponent but 150bb deep I am pretty much never 4betting this hand at NL2 unless it is against a maniac. And my 4bet would be much bigger in that case, probably just all in really.
 
JOEBOB69

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Don't set mine in 3bet pots(unless eff stacks are ~200bb+ deep and villain is a fish that can/will not fold a over pair EVER).

Have you tried the free trails of HM2 and PT4 yet ?
Notes are 100% free just practice taking them;)
 
RodneyC86

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Don't set mine in 3bet pots(unless eff stacks are ~200bb+ deep and villain is a fish that can/will not fold a over pair EVER).

Have you tried the free trails of HM2 and PT4 yet ?
Notes are 100% free just practice taking them;)

It's 2nl, you can set mine a3bet pot here. And OP was 150bb deep

Just don't try this against most 5nl players though
 
WVHillbilly

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Yeah you can call the 3bet to set mine this deep.
 
AlfieAA

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Should fold preflop then. Or call his 3b to set mine, your JJ at this point is nearly as playable as pocket twos given his range if your read is right.

At 2nl, most peeps can't let go of a monster hole hand, and they probably shouldn't! Often they face off fish that their hand crushes

yeah should have called his 3bet to set mine, then fold if i never hit it....i still see pocket 2's as a monster hand lol.....no i dont really
 
JOEBOB69

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It's 2nl, you can set mine a3bet pot here. And OP was 150bb deep

Just don't try this against most 5nl players though

We are looking for eff stacks to be at least 20x the price for us to call is.Villain started the hand with $2.93 the price for us to call the 3bet is .16 .That doesn't make the cut.Plus for us to be playing it as purely as a set mine we need some info letting us know villain has KK+ here.I don't feel we have that information.
furthermore if flop came out T72 is hero really going to fold to a cbet?
 
AlfieAA

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It's hard to say anything about this hand without some information on the opponent but 150bb deep I am pretty much never 4betting this hand at NL2 unless it is against a maniac. And my 4bet would be much bigger in that case, probably just all in really.

i had him down as a tag, nothing fancy, never saw him 3bet previous...was at the table for over an hour....yeah my 4bet should have been all in at that point....will call 3bets when im in that situation again...
 
RodneyC86

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We are looking for eff stacks to be at least 20x the price for us to call is.Villain started the hand with $2.93 the price for us to call the 3bet is .16 .That doesn't make the cut.Plus for us to be playing it as purely as a set mine we need some info letting us know villain has KK+ here.I don't feel we have that information.
furthermore if flop came out T72 is hero really going to fold to a cbet?

I go by the 15x rule personally which of course, given the default 100bb eff stacks, a set mine with a 3bet pot is a no no but this is different.

With a dead read' yes' fold the jacks. Remember, 2nl is 2nl... Sets will get paid off by over pairs VERY easy.
 
AlfieAA

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Don't set mine in 3bet pots(unless eff stacks are ~200bb+ deep and villain is a fish that can/will not fold a over pair EVER).

Have you tried the free trails of HM2 and PT4 yet ?
Notes are 100% free just practice taking them;)

yeah i tried holdem manager a few weeks ago on trial, but my netbook wasnt good enough to run it...always crashing...will need to win enough on 1 or 2 tables to get a new comp then work my way up again on that before getting it again....ive started taking some notes and colour coding bad players 'green' who open limp
 
JOEBOB69

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Is hero here ever folding to a T high flop to one cbet i say hell no.The math is close and we have postion,but i don't think we have enough info to say villains 3bet range is completly 1-2% of hands to start with.
 
JCgrind

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We are looking for eff stacks to be at least 20x the price for us to call is.Villain started the hand with $2.93 the price for us to call the 3bet is .16 .That doesn't make the cut.Plus for us to be playing it as purely as a set mine we need some info letting us know villain has KK+ here.I don't feel we have that information.
furthermore if flop came out T72 is hero really going to fold to a cbet?

im setming with way smaller ESS since its 2NL and overpairs are 'danutz'
 
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