$2 NLHE Full Ring: QT on BB with 4 limpers

peetaelliot

peetaelliot

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Hi, how should I play hands like this? I got a free flop this time but is QTo strong enough to raise with? I usually try not to get myself in these situations.

Should I have bet on the flop or not? How about turn, bet sizing if it's a good place to bet, and what to do after villain raises?

SB: $1.96 (98 bb)
Hero (BB): $2 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $1.53 (76.5 bb)
MP1: $2.14 (107 bb)
MP2: $2 (100 bb)
MP3: $2.43 (121.5 bb)
CO: $1.12 (56 bb)
BTN: $1.84 (92 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qd Ts
MP2 posts BB OOP, UTG+2 calls $0.02, MP1 folds, MP2 checks, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.02, SB completes, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.10) Ac 6d Th (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.10) 4s (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.07, UTG+2 raises to $0.25
 
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Papier24

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I wouldn't bet the flop or the turn. In a multiway pot like this betting with medium pair doesn't achieve anything. It's very likely one of them has an ace or even better. Just try to get a cheap showdown and hope your pair is good.
 
Figaroo2

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I would suggest that QTos isn't strong enough to squeeze with unless you have a very tight image. You could try of course and sometimes it works but against this many players some one will call enough of the time to put you in a situation where you are in a bloated pot oop with a mediocre holding.
Checking the flop is correct, you only have 2nd pair and there will be weak aces hands that likely also check against 5-6 players. There may also be sets looking not to give away appearing too strong and looking to check raise.
This is also why you should not be betting out here on the turn you are hardly ever ahead here and have very few outs to improve. If you had a better draw you could consider leading but not with this hand.
If the last player to act on the flop had bet I'd call that but if anyone else bets then it's a fold.
As played good fold he's raised you with 4 players still to act behind him..He has a very strong hand.
 
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blast126

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On flop if other players do instant check mostly means a missed flop.
However if any player take some time to check, that can mean he has something.
I would bet on flop, because it was an unraised pre flop, 0.06 and see how the other players react, many times I take the pot, other times happen exactly what happens to you.
 
peetaelliot

peetaelliot

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Thank you for the answers! Like I said I try to keep out of situations like this, I get in trouble way too often. Checking is easy when I miss the flop completely, but when I have something and no one else bets - not that easy. I'm out of position here, my hand is weak, clearly I should not bet on turn.

Good tip on seeing if players instantly check or take their time. Basic stuff but with this one I didn't think about that at all. I know I played this hand badly and feel more prepared now when a situation like this happens next time.

And I obviously folded to that raise, so did everyone else.
 
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FoldingAces

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Thank you for the answers! Like I said I try to keep out of situations like this, I get in trouble way too often. Checking is easy when I miss the flop completely, but when I have something and no one else bets - not that easy. I'm out of position here, my hand is weak, clearly I should not bet on turn.

Good tip on seeing if players instantly check or take their time. Basic stuff but with this one I didn't think about that at all. I know I played this hand badly and feel more prepared now when a situation like this happens next time.

And I obviously folded to that raise, so did everyone else.

Don't make reads based on time unless you have noticed pattern on certain player.
 
peetaelliot

peetaelliot

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Don't make reads based on time unless you have noticed pattern on certain player.
Why? I get that people can have different reasons for taking a long time to make their move but are you saying it should be ignored? With the little information we can get from other players in online poker shouldn't it all be considered when trying to read a villain?

I mean obviously you can never read someone 100% or make decisions based on one thing only. Is that what you're saying?
 
Figaroo2

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Don't make reads based on time unless you have noticed pattern on certain player.

this is correct. When I'm multi tabling there can be a delay in getting to the next table purely because I'm making a decision on another table. So you shouldn't read anything into how long it takes some players to respond.
On 2nl tables some players take an age just because they don't know what to do, with both strong and weak hands.
On poker stars there is a find a player feature which shows all the tables a player is sat at. It can however be turned off and most regs will have it turned off as it's a piece of info that can be used to assess how good a player you are. And if I know someone on my left is multi tabling I'll be stealing his blinds more than usual because I know he can't pay as much attention as usual.
That said there are some timing tells to be had but you need to notice these a few times and usually see the cards to know what they mean. I've found the best timing tell to be the instant ones. Often if someone has preselected their next action they are normally weak.
 
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peetaelliot

peetaelliot

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Thank you for another great answer Figaroo2, I get what you're saying here. This was not a hand anyone invested much in so it's possible their attention was somewhere else.

I play only two tables at the same time and don't do anything else when I play so it's easy to forget not everyone is staring at the table at all times.
 
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Gnikace

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You could have raised pre flop.. in that case, bet again post flop. You would then probably have won betting on the flop as others would have folded by now unless they had a strong hand
 
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