$2 NLHE Full Ring: QJ hits 2 pair on flop, Villain shoves AI on turn

G

Grinder888

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Would you call this?


888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 17.54, PFR: 8.99, 3Bet Preflop: 1.90, hands: 269)
UTG+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 5.00, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
MP: 173 BB (VPIP: 35.29, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
MP+1: 39 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
MP+2: 78 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
Hero (CO): 108 BB
BTN: 231 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 20)
SB: 36 BB (VPIP: 13.64, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 22)
BB: 77.5 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Qh Js
fold, UTG+1 raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop : (12.5 BB, 4 players) Qd Jd 7c
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP checks, Hero bets 12.5 BB, fold, fold, MP calls 12.5 BB

Turn : (37.5 BB, 2 players) Ac
MP bets 157.5 BB and is all-in, what should Hero do??
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Probably should just fold pre but as played we snap call.
 
D

David Chen

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Although he could have ace queen or jack you're ahead most of the time here so just call.
 
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MinhANguyen

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Fold pre and probably fold turn. You have to be right a good % of the time to make this a profitable call vs an overbet shove. And if he's semi-bluffing, he has tons of outs. If he's ahead, you are crushed to 4/2 outs.
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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passive fish snap shoves turn, i cant make my mind how often will he show up better like KT or better 2 pairs or even better... i would say that we dont need to gamble on this one, it will be better spots, make a note tho and if he have a habit of doing this on late streets, you can call him lighter next time...
 
B

beckyg89

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Tough spot

1) Probably a good idea to take that QJ out of your calling range there if anything maybe 3bet and try to isolate in position.

2) very tough call here i feel like its a very close EV spot I think a fold is actually fine, but take a note on this crazy guy and if you see this nonssense again take him out :)
 
TheBigFinn

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Bummer. My gut says call, but let's think.

First you only have 17 hands on him but he has limped or called 1/3 of the time. He could have anything preflop.

He check called on the flop. Looks like a draw, pair of 77s AQ, AJ or Ax. I gotta believe even a passive fish raised AK, QQ and JJ preflop. The flush draw is there and KT & T9 straight draws on the flop.

A on the turn completes the KT straight draw and makes AQ, AJ and A7 winners against your two pair and puts him far ahead and He is a 40/60 dog to an A of diamonds flush draw.

You are either way ahead or way behind.

The shove is not as big as it looks, You are the effective stack with 92.5 BBs remaining. call 92.5BB to win 140BB. You need to win 40% of the time.

Very tough given the number of combo flush draws and AK, AT, A9 and A8s vs winning hands he could be shoving. Given the read as a passive player, the guy doesn't seem likely to be making a move,but it is entirely possible he thinks a pair of aces is good.

I go with my gut and make the crying call.

The bigger question is, "What the heck are your stats CALLING QJo in the CO?" Seems way to loose to me and may have induced villain's shove.
 
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Grinder888

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Thank you all, the thought process is very helpful!

(As I'm quite new to this) One thing I wanted to understand better:

Many of you suggested to pre fold JQ. From what i read so far, in an unopened pot JQ from CO is an ok raising hand. But if the pot is open raised from UTG then the gap theory suggest we should have similar strength or better (like AK,AQ,AA,KK or QQ).

But from playing a short while at the tables I see people open raise very light at $2 NLHE. (Now this is just my thinking process so please correct me if I am wrong anywhere) I see the situation as the UTG having a solid starting hand while I have 2 semi-decent cards, which could be good if connected to the flop but not good enough to 3bet. So i cold called (or would we say overcalled here) the raise, ready to give up the pot at the sight of aggression. On the plus side I did have position so I could try a steal if the pot is uncontested. Then I flopped top 2 but there is a possible FD on board and no bets.
I make pot bet to see if I can take it down here and surprisingly MP comes along. Now he could either be TPGK+ or on FD. Turn comes an Ace and he blind shoves AI.

My question is, should I always fold JG in CO from UTG standard raise
or is trying to pick off a strong hand with good position possible? Especially in micros where there should be no fancy plays whatsoever(so I've read). Also the UTG is 17/9 and so probably not the tightest player(but can be still decent)

With the hand though, the turn card opened the can of worms; so many hands beat me now. First there was a risk of set but now sets, straight, higher 2 pairs ... like everything gets there. Worst hand I thought was KTd that could tag along and then couldn't let go.

@TheBigFinn My stats were horrible, you're probably right about why Villain shoved. I'm working on playing a tighter range but its a transition and is really hard but will get there hopefully!!

Thank you all for the input, I know this hand was not ideal but still appreciate the feedback. Cheers!
 
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braveslice

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imo you can call QJo in position multiway at NL2 if you know what you are doing, if you are learning try at least go for QJs. When the pot is multiway the thinking should change from the opening charts to about hands that do well in multiway situations. The hands can be as bad as A2s, 56s and so on, however it takes discipline to fold seemingly strong hand in multiway pots so playing these hands is a losing play untill you hone your skills high enough. But I think NL2 is great place to learn to play these hands because learning is cheap there also when you hit you usually get paid too.

Opening QJo from CO is totally different than calling with it. First of your range is in everage much stronger vs. players behind you, secondly calling UTG open gets you dominated, if you hit top pair KQ and AQ are mostly only Qs in his range and you donate 2 streets value, not to talk about over pairs. Getting J is a bit better maybe, dunno. If you open CO with it and hit top pair it mostly is the best top pair.

I would call because he is fish, but that probably would be a losing play.

Slipsuit always says to look worst possible situation first, that should give good indication about the playability of you hand.
Not sure if I do this right, but lets give him: {AA,QQ-JJ,AQs+,A7s,KTs,AJo+,A7o,KTo} you still have 21% equity so not that bad, then we give him all A hi diamond draws for the bluff and we get 26% equity.

TheBigFin says you need 40%, another way thinkng this is that he should bluff 50% of the time this call to be profitable.
 
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