$2 NLHE Full Ring: Post Flop Play Question

SeaRun

SeaRun

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This hand happened this morning. I wasn't at the table long, maybe 30 hands, so I had a decent read on the villain who was playing a lot of hands and was particularly aggressive post flop. I didn't see a lot of his pockets because opponents normally folded to his post play, but when I did see them, he had the goods.

My thoughts pre- when he raised me were not to re-raise, just a call to see the flop, and lucky I did. I checked the flop, not wanting to Donk Bet and knowing he'd stab at it, which he did. A couple of times before, I had seen him shove to a raise of ~ 3 X the pot, which is what I wanted him to do here. Also, I wanted my bet to look like a bluff.

What should I have done? Smaller raise, call and wait for Turn or River to go big?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 130 BB (VPIP: 42.31, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
CO: 84 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 15)
BTN: 254.5 BB (VPIP: 20.93, PFR: 18.60, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 43)
SB: 149 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 71.5 BB (VPIP: 37.93, PFR: 20.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 58)
Hero (UTG): 247 BB
UTG+1: 141 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
MP: 108 BB (VPIP: 12.69, PFR: 5.22, 3Bet Preflop: 4.08, Hands: 134)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:heart: J:club:

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 3.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 5.5 BB, MP+1 calls 5.5 BB

Flop: (28.5 BB, 3 players) J:spade: 4:spade: 8:heart:
Hero checks, MP+1 checks, BTN bets 16 BB, Hero raises to 75 BB, fold, fold

Hero wins 58.5 BB
 
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hffjd2000

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I believe you felt excited when you saw your monster hand.
On your assumptions above (about him), then how about you do it on the turn or river and not flop.
 
SeaRun

SeaRun

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I believe you felt excited when you saw your monster hand.

Possible, but I don't think so. If I was excited beyond all means I would have shoved as a Donk Bet, yes? I was trying to play into moves I had already sen him make.

On your assumptions above (about him), then how about you do it on the turn or river and not flop.

That's kind of what I'm asking, should I have done it when I did, or wait for Turn or River??
 
Arjonius

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I'd lean toward donking the flop, likely for 16-18bb. If he folds, he'll also fold to any check-raise, so the only opportunity cost is the amount of his presumed cbet.

If he calls, fine. He will have put about as many chips in the pot as if I checked and he cbet, but with those hands that would cbet then fold to the check-raise, he'll still be live and thus able to put in more. I don't want to see a spade on the turn, but that will only happen a minority of the time, plus his calling range includes a fair bit more than just flush draws.

If he raises, also fine.

If he would have cbet then called or re-popped your C/R, he's not folding when you donk. He may very well raise, which is fine.

Plus it's 2nl. You can expect a decent chance that he'll play sub-optimally at some point in the hand, like calling too wide or two much.

So overall, I think it's more profitable to lead the flop.
 
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matiusaa

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I think the reraise was far too big. Maybe it would have been better to flat call his bets on every street. If you wanted the pot to get big you could have min raise
 
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

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i'm with Arjonius on this . "I had a decent read on the villain who was playing a lot of hands and was particularly aggressive post flop." means that having 3bet pre he is highly likely to continue playing aggressively and raise your donk bet. The advantage of this is that you are 250 BBs deep and building a huge pot is going to be easy if he raises you. If he raises you , tank a bit and call or go for a min reraise.

You have to be aware of your stack size , its one thing for him to be shoving 250BB into a guy with 70bb left in his stack, its another thing for him to shove his 250BBs into another 250bb stack. Even maniacs are wary of doing that without the nuts.

if you call the flop i'd check the turn as he is likely to bet big and i'd shove over with him pretty much pot committed.
 
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taas

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I think that your pre flop was good. I'd rather bet on the flop but your check-raise was not bad and depends on what you want it to do. If you don't want to see the turn (spade is a bad card, he's possible AQspades +), your 3bet size was good.
 
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SwiftHax

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Hmmm... I would never have thought about donking, but it's not a bad idea now that you put it that way. Check calling and donk-calling is better than check raising against such players. He will most likely second barrel. He might even pair his overcards.
 
skrsh76

skrsh76

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Who is your Villain.. MP+1 or BTN. MP+1 has a high VPIP but is not aggressive in this hand and BTN has reasonable VPIP but is aggressive in this hand..

First I saw this hand I was leaning towards donk betting as well
 
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