$2 NLHE Full Ring: Playing pocket Jacks against a preflop raiser - part 3

full tilt poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 2065127
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: $4.21
MP2: $2.08
CO: $2.03
Hero (BTN): $5.02
SB: $1.98
BB: $3.76
UTG: $1.79
UTG+1: $2.31
UTG+2: $2.00

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with J ♣ J ♠
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.07, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.07, 1 fold, BB calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.22) 8 ♦ 4 ♦ 2 ♥ (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets $0.17, Hero raises to $0.34, BB folds, UTG+2 requests TIME, UTG+2 calls $0.17

Turn: ($0.90) T ♥ (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $1.07, UTG+2 raises to $1.59 all in, Hero calls $0.52

River: ($4.08) 4 ♣ (2 players - 1 is all in)

Villain is 16 / 12 / 1.3 (207 hands)

Opinions? I know sizing is quirky, I was playing 4 tables + 2 tournaments so was in a bit of a hurry.

I don't like the raise on the flop. I call and see what develops on the turn. Turns gross.

Raise more OTF, don't min raise its disgusting.

Then just bet and call off the turn.

So other than the minraise it was OK?

Don't like over betting the turn but if we raise a decent amount OTF, we can just ship the turn.

Lets assume he has AA is there any way I am not getting stacked here?

raising the flop is really really bad though.

if we think we're ahead already then we should be 3betting for value, we cant flat and min-raise 8 high flops and expect to get it in vs worse very often.

call flop, most turns and consider folding rivers since 3 barrels will normally be a better hand.

If I 3-bet preflop against 2 overcards then I am around 52% to win, but if the flop is like it is here then my chances are getting excellent and I think I can get called by AK, AQ etc. so this is the logic behind the flop raise vs. his cbet.

So this is why 3-betting preflop and raising the flop are not the same EV.

I am behind a better PP but I am gonna pay dearly in that case anyway.

so you min raise the flop for value vs air?

are you hearing yourself dude?

Wait a minute.

Raising the flop is either good or bad (we have dissenting opinions here).

a) If it is bad, then it is bad and that is the end of it.
- I am not too happy just calling here, what am I hoping to achieve with that line?

b) If raising is good, then:
- if I am getting called by worse then small raise is better than big one, no? Big raise they fold, small raise they call.
- if I am getting called by a better PP or a set then I am in trouble either way

calling allows him to keep betting worse/air + we can take it away on future streets if we're somehow behind.

raising JJ here is bad because it stops him putting money into the pot with worse.

minraising the turn to freeze the action could be considered but its super nonstandard and would probably be frowned upon.

also, wtf at the turn?

Dunno, letting him fire away with possibly better hand makes me just a calling station. On the flop, if my minraise provokes him to reraise then I am pretty sure I am beaten and can fold.

Basically the problem here is that there is no way to know where I stand but I figured that minraise gives me the most chance to find out if I am beaten while still getting calls from weaker hands.

As for why I bet on the turn, well now there are 2 flush draws on the board + a potential hidden straight (although unlikely) so why not press the issue? I can't just check after I raised the flop.

He's on about the bet size.

YGM, you can have it.

LD1977 said:

Dunno, letting him fire away with possibly better hand makes me just a calling station. On the flop, if my minraise provokes him to reraise then I am pretty sure I am beaten and can fold.

Click to expand...

Yes but when you re-raise you are also allowing him to do this with worse costing you a ton of money in the long term and stopping him from barreling off with worse, if you station once you can make a note that he doesnt triple barrel AK there meaning you can fold easily in the futre

I can't just check after I raised the flop.

Click to expand...

Why not?