$2 NLHE Full Ring: Nut straight on a 3-flush turn facing re-raise shove

Luvart

Luvart

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-Seat 1: Villain ($2.25 in chips)
-Seat 2 (SB): Player 2 ($2.11 in chips)
-Seat 3 (BB): Hero ($2 in chips)
-Seat 4: Player 4 ($2.03 in chips)
-Seat 5: Player 5 ($3.62 in chips)
-Seat 6: Player 6 ($1.31 in chips)
-Seat 7: Player 7 ($2.36 in chips)
-Seat 8: Player 8 ($2 in chips)
-Seat 9: Player 9($4.41 in chips)

Player 2: posts small blind $0.01, Hero : posts big blind $0.02


*** HOLE CARDS ***


Dealt to Hero [5c 4c]


Folds, Player 5: raises $0.02 to $0.04, folds, folds, folds, Player 9: calls $0.04, Villain: calls $0.04, Player 2: folds, Hero: calls $0.02


*** FLOP *** [2s Ad 9d]

Hero: checks, Player 5: bets $0.08, Player 9: folds, Villain: calls $0.08, Hero: calls $0.08


*** TURN *** [2s Ad 9d] 3♦

Hero: checks, Player 5: bets $0.20, Villain: calls $0.20, Hero: raises $0.52 to $0.72, Player 5: folds, Villain: raises $1.41 to $2.13 and is all-in, Hero: ???


No info on the villain.

On the flop I think I’m good with the call. On the turn the unknown villain’s re-raise shove reeks the total nuts, but my nut straight is a NUT straight…..

Thoughts?
 
J

JustSoPro

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Two other players in the pot and the $0.20 was already called by the third player? That's an easy fold in my books, even if they don't have two diamonds, chances are they both have at least one which leaves about another 20% chance they hit it on the river. You will lose a lot more times than you will win in this spot, you theoretically only beat aces and two-pairs and aces would have likely folded already.
 
Aces2w1n

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Calling preflop is bad... u raise or fold preflop end of story.

Then its much harder for opponent to flush and we stack hands with a good ace or a set ;)

Main problem is you have no info.... so its a fold preflop until we get a feel for his play...


If he ends up aggressive we end up paying too much to make our hands and we will be -ev overall
 
Luvart

Luvart

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Two other players in the pot and the $0.20 was already called by the third player? That's an easy fold in my books, even if they don't have two diamonds, chances are they both have at least one which leaves about another 20% chance they hit it on the river. You will lose a lot more times than you will win in this spot, you theoretically only beat aces and two-pairs and aces would have likely folded already.


When I raise, the player 5 who bet the 0,20$ folded and there is only the Villain who re-raises me. So it is me vs one opponent. If there was villain's re-raise and a call before it was my turn to act, I would probably fold for the correct reason you mentioned.



But vs one opponent?
 
Luvart

Luvart

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Calling preflop is bad... u raise or fold preflop end of story.

Then its much harder for opponent to flush and we stack hands with a good ace or a set ;)

Main problem is you have no info.... so its a fold preflop until we get a feel for his play...


If he ends up aggressive we end up paying too much to make our hands and we will be -ev overall


Good points.


So there is no call pre even after a min open-raise and two calls with a suited connector? Implied odds?
 
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braveslice

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After you learn to fold, you can start call again, meaning you know by heart the drawbacks, but are skilled enough to overcome those obstacles by being better than opponents with implied odds you can estimate in general level. If you didn't get chills when you raised turn, you should fold this pre.

I assume you need 30% to call turn? That might be too much 4 way vs reraise, but I can't blame you if you called it's still quite possible that he just decided to go with a draw or protects 2ndP against your draw :D
 
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Alucard

Alucard

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not sure full ring but 6max calling isn't bad. But 3betting looks better
 
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braveslice

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Surely looks better, but given vs most likely group of fishes (and OOP) I don't see the point, K2s would be better pick for 3bet (blocker and possible top pair) :p
 
Aces2w1n

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Reverse odds 6max you can get away with but as mentioned play fold or raise and take control preflop with position.


You wont make your hand much so you rely on folds to help the winrate


Fullring often requires tightening up and ranges your opponents have its hard to get paid and will run into bigger flushes. Also you need folds as above stated to help.


So yep reverse implied odds as most action will come from bigger flushes


And when you make straights itll be usually lower straights. 2 pairs will get counterfeit.

And straight draws usually awful with flush draws cuz u have dirty outs esp as played.


So many reasons not to
 
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Gildog89

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With no info on villain, I think you have to fold here.

I am ok with call pre flop with no information on the table. Too often, a raise there just gets 3 callers at these stakes, and you do have some good implied odds. I don't like the call on the flop though. A gutshot with a flush draw on the board (3 clean outs) and still 3 way. I am folding there. When you call for .02 preflop, you have to flop better to continue imo. Fold there and you avoid the difficult spot on the turn.
 
Luvart

Luvart

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Good points guys.

Now as I see the hand again, the flop call is quite nonsense to be honest.....I should have folded.
 
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braveslice

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After database analysis I change my mind and say that calling small suited connectors is not profitable (at least for me) even when I have chosen the spots very carefully on multi way cases (a bit better full than 6max results). No idea how carefully but my guess is that way under 5%. Now most are from big blind (not counted) and tilt hands are over presented, but still for me better not to call.
 
Luvart

Luvart

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After database analysis I change my mind and say that calling small suited connectors is not profitable (at least for me) even when I have chosen the spots very carefully on multi way cases (a bit better full than 6max results). No idea how carefully but my guess is that way under 5%. Now most are from big blind (not counted) and tilt hands are over presented, but still for me better not to call.


:icon_thum
 
Nathan Williams

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Call now, but fold to the initial flop bet when you are OOP and only have 3 clean outs.
 
Luvart

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Call now, but fold to the initial flop bet when you are OOP and only have 3 clean outs.


Yes, the more I see the hand the more I realize my flop call is horrible to the fullest!:mad:
 
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