$2 NLHE Full Ring: JJ vs a 3bet

M

Mcadieux

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 10/8/1

This seems like a really easy fold, but for some reason I feel like I should post it since JJ always loose me money. Villan is 10,9,1 over 50 hands, cbet is 100% out of one time so not much help. My major question is if I should have even called the flop.


PokerStars - $0.02 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG+1: $2.01
MP: $5.09
MP+1: $1.64
LP: $1.32
CO: $2.00
BTN: $2.36
SB: $2.13
BB: $2.50
Hero (UTG): $2.54

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has J:spade: J:heart:

Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.08, SB raises to $0.28, fold, Hero calls $0.20, fold

Based on his stats I put him on AA, KK, AK maybe QQ. Figured I could call to set mine since I had position and if he had AK and missed the flop.

Flop: ($0.66, 2 players) 8:heart: 2:diamond: T:spade:
SB bets $0.34, Hero ??

Figuring fold here since the whole range I put him on beats me.
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Your turning JJ into pair of4s if you were truly set minning you didn't hit and fold the hand.Preflop this is one of my worst hands,that i get trouble with 10 10\JJ vs very tight agg 3better i'll let some one else time in.I could use the advice my self.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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If you're calling a 3-bet preflop, you gotta call the flop.
 
C

ComplexPlaya

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c9h13no3 said:
If you're calling a 3-bet preflop, you gotta call the flop.
Click to expand...

Why? If his range is correct and it's a purely set-mine situation then it's a fold

Hand 0: 59.070% 59.07% 00.00% 119298 0.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 40.930% 40.93% 00.00% 82662 0.00 { JJ }

FWIW you shouldn't set mine this, 50 hands is not enough sample to know what he 3-bets with. I would only set mine a pair if I thought villain was just 3-betting KK and AA
 
TylerN

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ComplexPlaya said:
FWIW you shouldn't set mine this, 50 hands is not enough sample to know what he 3-bets with. I would only set mine a pair if I thought villain was just 3-betting KK and AA
Click to expand...

So what would you do preflop?
 
ljove

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I think you should raise all in or fold here.
Call is not option for me here
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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ComplexPlaya said:
Why? If his range is correct and it's a purely set-mine situation then it's a fold
Click to expand...
Because (like you said) you can't set mine profitably in this spot. You will not hit enough sets to make up for the money you put in preflop. What he's 3-betting with has nothing to do with whether you can set mine profitably, so who cares if he's got aces.

So if you're calling his 3-bet, you're essentially saying that he's got a wide enough range here (either bluffs or for value) that you can call with jacks to play them for their over pair/2nd pair value. Truly, some players will 3-bet enough stuff out of position that this will be the case on some occasions. This probably isn't one of those occasions.

I'd probably dump this preflop, especially playing full ring where everyone's a bunch of weak-tight nits. But if you insist on calling, you'll never be profitable if you're just set mining. So call the flop, and fold to most 2nd barrels on the turn.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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c9h13no3 said:
Because (like you said) you can't set mine profitably in this spot. You will not hit enough sets to make up for the money you put in preflop. What he's 3-betting with has nothing to do with whether you can set mine profitably, so who cares if he's got aces.

So if you're calling his 3-bet, you're essentially saying that he's got a wide enough range here (either bluffs or for value) that you can call with jacks to play them for their over pair/2nd pair value. Truly, some players will 3-bet enough stuff out of position that this will be the case on some occasions. This probably isn't one of those occasions.

I'd probably dump this preflop, especially playing full ring where everyone's a bunch of weak-tight nits. But if you insist on calling, you'll never be profitable if you're just set mining. So call the flop, and fold to most 2nd barrels on the turn.
Click to expand...

But surely that expands the pre-flop mistake and makes it worse, losing more money. I mean it's ok to realize during the hand man I made a mistake some time previously, I need to change my plan for it right?

FWIW if we put him on QQ+ AK the 1/2 pot bet makes it is a call though with our 40% equity, but if he bets more we have to fold.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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WSOP13 said:
So what would you do preflop?
Click to expand...

Fold vs this guy, all the info you have on him is uber nit

ljove said:
I think you should raise all in or fold here.
Call is not option for me here
Click to expand...

Why the hell is shoving an option? You could make a case that there are 16 combos of AK and bla bla, but I'm not betting a random at 2nl is folding AK here
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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ComplexPlaya said:
But surely that expands the pre-flop mistake and makes it worse, losing more money.
Click to expand...
More $ in the pot now than preflop, flop wasn't bad, getting better odds, hard to fold even if his range is QQ+/AK.
 
M

Mcadieux

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Thanks for all the replies. This forum is definitely helping me improve as a player. I ended up folding it on the flop bet. From what I take away from this I was probably better off just folding this pre since he was a nit who 3bet me out of position. I don't yet have the skills to allow myself into crazy post flop situations, but then again I need to learn somewhere.
 
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