$2 NLHE Full Ring: Folding AA after 3bet on this board?

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ilostmysoul

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EDIT: Title is deceptive; there is no 3betting, just a raise. Sorry for if it upsets anyone, but I got confused and can't edit it out.
Hello everyone :)
So I had barely any sleep tonight because of that whole Oscars thingy, and because I had around 8.85€ in my account I figured I could join a NL2 table, short-stacked, and play a NIT game. Wasn't focused enough to make any good reads, despite tagging a fish and a TAG at the table, but I was doing pretty good, winning over 10BBs in the first half hour without any all-ins. Folding most of the hands and after 4 orbits without playing, I get this:

$0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (7 handed)

Known players:
[tg]MP2$2.62:///////;MP3$2.04:///////;CO$2.43:///////;BU$2.00:///////;SB$1.91:///////;BB$1.82:///////;MP1 (Hero)$1.07:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with :ah4:, :ac4:
Hero raises to $0.06, 5 folds, BB calls $0.04.

Flop: ($0.13) :4d4:, :9c4:, :qs4: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.06, BB calls $0.06.

Turn: ($0.25) :7h4: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.10, BB raises to $0.20, Hero ???

Final Pot: $0.55.

Like I said, I wasn't focused enough to make any worthwhile reads, and I couldn't put this player on a range or any type of deceptive play. Take him as unknown.
When I was playing the hand, I figured that if he was playing straightforwardly, he had 2 pair, right? But then again, could he have defended the blind with any of those 2-pair hands? Probably :7d4::9d4: or something, but unlikely. I excluded 2 pair because of that. I took into account a set of sevens; it fits well into this betting pattern in my view.

I thought a little bit using all the energy the 3 cups of coffee (almost in a row) had offered me that he could have 56s. It's not that bad of a play to defend the blind with it, and I already had a reputation of being very aggressive whenever I got into a hand, so maybe he thought I was bluffing and therefore semi-bluffed with an OESD?

Anyways, point being, what would you do here? At the time it kinda seemed like an obvious fold, and at the same time it didn't. Also, what do you think of my betting in the previous rounds? Isn't 1/2 the pot too small; shouldn't it be like 2/3 or something? And what about my readings?
Thanks for the input :)
 
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suby_rafael

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I would have bet more on the flop (close to pot), and again bet more on the turn and would have got check raised by villain(since he got lucky on the turn) if he called me on flop to which i would have shoved all in and lost. :p:eek:

Difficult to get away if they get lucky you see .. we cannot fold the turn for sure.
 
Marcwantstowin

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I definately would have bet more on the flop perhaps a pot sized bet say, or $0.10 and then again on the turn if he then continued to re-raise my bet on the turn I would have re-raised him all-in. Perhaps this is a losing play but I feel he may not understand your betting pattern and call with perhaps Q 2, thus believeing you were bluffing. I am saying all this as you do not have much information about your opponent, if you did I were adjust accordingly.

Gl in the future :D:D:D
 
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ilostmysoul

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I would have bet more on the flop (close to pot), and again bet more on the turn and would have got check raised by villain(since he got lucky on the turn) if he called me on flop to which i would have shoved all in and lost. :p:eek:

Difficult to get away if they get lucky you see .. we cannot fold the turn for sure.

I definately would have bet more on the flop perhaps a pot sized bet say, or $0.10 and then again on the turn if he then continued to re-raise my bet on the turn I would have re-raised him all-in. Perhaps this is a losing play but I feel he may not understand your betting pattern and call with perhaps Q 2, thus believeing you were bluffing. I am saying all this as you do not have much information about your opponent, if you did I were adjust accordingly.

Gl in the future :D:D:D

Exactly what happened. I raised to the pot size, he raised behind, I shoved. He calls and shows :9d4::9s4:.

I beat myself over because of the way I played but I'm glad to see that somebody else would play the same way :p I'm proud of myself for managing to keep calm and sit out instead of buying in again on tilt like I'm used to. I'll take that as a sign that my mental game is improving. However the "that was such a stupid play why would you ever do that" didn't leave me alone for a while.

Still, we can't exactly blame villain, he played the best he could. He called with a pair, made the set, an amazing (from my POV, knowing he is a low stakes, online player) slowplay on that flop, and then he took his shot in the turn.
These are the kind of things that make me afraid to get AA, KK, and QQ to the flop. In tournaments I will go all-in with them most of the times, even when I'm deep-stacked and risking a very probably lose. But from the way I see it, I'd rather go all-in and get called with the best of it, than giving other gambling hands (pocket pairs, suited connectors, etc) a chance to call profitably and outdraw me while I'm pretty much stuck to the hand (unless the board is too wet and/or the betting pattern is so obvious that it commands a fold).
Thanks for answering guys :)
 
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John A

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I think the key element in a hand like this is understanding why you're doing what you're doing. You bet small on the flop and turn, presumably to induce a bluff? But by doing so you open up your opponents bluffing range because your bet is weak. If you're going to under bet the pot, then understand what range you expect your opponent to bluff with that you beat and have a plan for what you're doing if you're raised.

As played, call the turn.
 
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ilostmysoul

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I think the key element in a hand like this is understanding why you're doing what you're doing. You bet small on the flop and turn, presumably to induce a bluff? But by doing so you open up your opponents bluffing range because your bet is weak. If you're going to under bet the pot, then understand what range you expect your opponent to bluff with that you beat and have a plan for what you're doing if you're raised.

As played, call the turn.

Very interesting insight John!
The bet on flop and turn were mostly a mistake because I haven't studied and grasped bet sizing yet (since I haven't had much time for theoretical study). I wanted medium to low pairs to call me, and indeed to induce a bluff on turn or river (kinda goes against that bet tho, I know).

I didn't call the turn, but instead re-raised and then re-re-raised all-in into his set, but assuming that I had called, how would you play in the river, since it was a pretty harmless card that didn't change the board at all :)5s:), unless he had 68 which is not very likely right now? He would either shove or do a pretty big bet, and I'm still "stuck" with the same hand, or should I fold in this scenario?
Thanks for answering :)
 
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I think you shall fold here.
 
skrsh76

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getting away from the set is an art, which I am far from learning let alone mastering..Should we always proceed with caution if Check raised or 3bet?
 
John A

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Very interesting insight John!
The bet on flop and turn were mostly a mistake because I haven't studied and grasped bet sizing yet (since I haven't had much time for theoretical study). I wanted medium to low pairs to call me, and indeed to induce a bluff on turn or river (kinda goes against that bet tho, I know).

I didn't call the turn, but instead re-raised and then re-re-raised all-in into his set, but assuming that I had called, how would you play in the river, since it was a pretty harmless card that didn't change the board at all :)5s:), unless he had 68 which is not very likely right now? He would either shove or do a pretty big bet, and I'm still "stuck" with the same hand, or should I fold in this scenario?
Thanks for answering :)

If he bets a reasonable amount, then you're calling. I think a shove here would be about a 1 1/2 pot, so you'd obviously fold. Anything that's close to just under pot or less I'd call simply because your opponents range is now wider since your betting line was so weak. He could think he's CR a Q for value, or he could be donking around with draws. It's wide enough for a turn call and reasonable river call to be +EV.
 
John A

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getting away from the set is an art, which I am far from learning let alone mastering..Should we always proceed with caution if Check raised or 3bet?

A golden rule, especially at micro stakes - if you're check min-raised on the turn, then you're usually facing a monster (assuming you are betting a normal amount and not under betting. Under betting would be anything that's about half pot bet or under). If you're check min-raised by a passive player, then multiply this rule x10.
 
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ilostmysoul

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getting away from the set is an art, which I am far from learning let alone mastering..Should we always proceed with caution if Check raised or 3bet?

Yea in my small experience it's usually a sing of strength, or at least a strong draw. But I wouldn't equal it to a set or better, most likely I would assume a draw or top pair + good kicker. 4bets are a different story though. I usually put 4bets on a made draw, set, or overpair.

That's just my experience in micros :p
 
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ilostmysoul

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If he bets a reasonable amount, then you're calling. I think a shove here would be about a 1 1/2 pot, so you'd obviously fold. Anything that's close to just under pot or less I'd call simply because your opponents range is now wider since your betting line was so weak. He could think he's CR a Q for value, or he could be donking around with draws. It's wide enough for a turn call and reasonable river call to be +EV.

A golden rule, especially at micro stakes - if you're check min-raised on the turn, then you're usually facing a monster (assuming you are betting a normal amount and not under betting. Under betting would be anything that's about half pot bet or under). If you're check min-raised by a passive player, then multiply this rule x10.

Great advice thanks!!
 
skrsh76

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A golden rule, especially at micro stakes - if you're check min-raised on the turn, then you're usually facing a monster (assuming you are betting a normal amount and not under betting. Under betting would be anything that's about half pot bet or under). If you're check min-raised by a passive player, then multiply this rule x10.

Thanks John Much appreciated
 
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